TV: Game of Thrones

Tirin

God-Emperor of Tealkind
Moderator
As nobles and veterans go, and despite wielding a near-priceless and superior sword, Jon's never been a particularly exceptional fighter.
There is a very large skill difference between Jon Snow and Jon Show.
The thread is titled TV: Game of Thrones...

The fuckboy of Meereen was the champion of a thriving metropolis built around constant gladiatorial death-matches. It's not nothing.
It's evidently not much, either, since he got jobbed like Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg.

Hard to say how much of Rhaegar's prowess was really just due to posthumous inflation. When asked, Barristan Selmy is uncomfortable with his description as "a warrior without peer" - if only because, as he explains, luck and circumstance weigh into the outcomes of duels as well as the respective strength and skill of the fighters.

Dude had won a bunch of fights and tournaments, though.
Rhaegar is 100% viewed by rose-tinted glasses by most of the population (though Bobby B was a total badass).
Obviously Rhaegar wasn't a warrior without peer, or Robert almost certainly wouldn't have savaged him. He had a good record, though, and a good reputation (as both a warrior and a person) generally doesn't come about from nothing.
 

Tag_Ross

Well-Known Member
Member
It's evidently not much, either, since he got jobbed like Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg.
I still have trouble believing that happened.

Anyways, as for book only characters I would say Strong Belwas could stand a decent chance against Gregor... But I'd still give him a 0% chance of victory due to him always letting his opponent cut him first.
 

Easy

Right Honorable Justice
Member
The thread is titled TV: Game of Thrones...
Even in the show, Jon Snow's only distinguished himself when fighting against either rabble, or Ramsay. And Ramsay, though particularly vicious, isn't particularly skilled in combat.
It's evidently not much, either, since he got jobbed like Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg.
Basically: Daario's not that big a deal because he's never wrecked anybody who was all that big a deal, and the guys he's wrecked clearly weren't that big a deal because they got wrecked by Daario.

I'm not that big a fan of Daario, but I'm much less a fan of that kind of logic.
Obviously Rhaegar wasn't a warrior without peer, or Robert almost certainly wouldn't have savaged him. He had a good record, though, and a good reputation (as both a warrior and a person) generally doesn't come about from nothing.
Yeah. He was good enough to beat Dayne in a tourney at one point, and finish second to him at other times. Between him and Robert, that makes at least two peers.
 

Firedemon

Well-Known Member
Member
So, friend of mine started watching Game of Thrones a couple days ago. We had roughly this conversation today.

Friend: I'm watching it in class, this is my life now
Me: You know nothing, <friend>
Friend: <gif of Ygritte telling Jon Snow he knows nothing>
Me: Quit spoilering yourself
Friend: I can't dude I can't
Also, I love Robb
I hope he doesn't die
Me: Valar Morghulis
*brief questioning of this statement*
Me: How far are you?
Friend: Almost through season 1
Me: Khal Drogo is fucking great, isn't he?
*brief discussion of this*
Me: You know who else is great? Ned Stark.
*brief discussion of this*

*an hourish later*

Friend: I HATE YOU
FUCK YOU
FUCK THIS DAMN SHOW
FUCK IT ALL


Really made my day right there.
 

Tirin

God-Emperor of Tealkind
Moderator
Even in the show, Jon Snow's only distinguished himself when fighting against either rabble, or Ramsay. And Ramsay, though particularly vicious, isn't particularly skilled in combat.
Fair point, but rabble or no, he was fighting in a battle while heavily outnumbered with worse-trained and less-disciplined forces, and performed exceedingly well. He deserves some credit, if not necessarily in duels then in general fighting without dying.

Basically: Daario's not that big a deal because he's never wrecked anybody who was all that big a deal, and the guys he's wrecked clearly weren't that big a deal because they got wrecked by Daario.

I'm not that big a fan of Daario, but I'm much less a fan of that kind of logic.
Pretty hard to judge a guy as a "big deal" when his best 1v1 feat, historically or otherwise, is beating some one-off character with no grounding at all for his level of skill beyond the who promptly got rekt. As for his pit fighter history, even fucking Jorah Mormont managed to win some major pit fights in the show, and he's much older than Daario and generally not seen as a great fighter.

Yeah. He was good enough to beat Dayne in a tourney at one point, and finish second to him at other times. Between him and Robert, that makes at least two peers.
If he legitimately beat the Sword of the Morning in a 1v1, he's certainly got the skills to beat the Mountain.
 

Chickenspleen

Well-Known Member
Member
You know, I was gonna wait to watch the show until I was done with all the books, but at the rate GRRM's going, that'll be at least six years from now, so I might hop in. I've already heard most of the spoilers anyway.
 

Tag_Ross

Well-Known Member
Member
Grrmy isn't going to finish the books, we all know that he's going to keep expanding the series until the day he dies.
 

Easy

Right Honorable Justice
Member
Fair point, but rabble or no, he was fighting in a battle while heavily outnumbered with worse-trained and less-disciplined forces, and performed exceedingly well. He deserves some credit, if not necessarily in duels then in general fighting without dying.
I won't argue that, but I will maintain that it's not nearly enough to expect he'd have any real chance of beating The Mountain in a 1v1.
Pretty hard to judge a guy as a "big deal" when his best 1v1 feat, historically or otherwise, is beating some one-off character with no grounding at all for his level of skill beyond the who promptly got rekt. As for his pit fighter history, even fucking Jorah Mormont managed to win some major pit fights in the show, and he's much older than Daario and generally not seen as a great fighter.
The majority of Meereen's pit fights are actually 1v1's of almost exactly the same nature as Westeros's combat trials, and the city's Champion would've had a stellar record at them. In the chapters that go through detailing Danaerys's attempts at ruling the city, it ends up getting revealed that several of the man's lessers had far-reaching reputations of their own.

Jorah Mormont was considered to be a good fighter even before leaving Westeros, and has spent a great many years merc'ing his ass off since then. He's just not that great at jousting, and as such, has only a single tournament championship to his name in Westeros.
If he legitimately beat the Sword of the Morning in a 1v1, he's certainly got the skills to beat the Mountain.
Assuming he was as good a swordsman as a lancer, most certainly. It's hard to be really sure, though; unlike Dayne, who's got at least as many swordsmanship feats to his name as tourney wins, Rhaegar's most noteworthy melee battle was the one where Robert Baratheon quite literally crushed him in single combat. It's not impossible that he's kind of an inverse Robert that way, (as in, great at jousting and shit at melee), but it's also not terribly likely.
 

The Hound

Just Monika
Member
It was good, although not much really happened. Felt like a bit of rehash of what was going on at the end of last season, like outlining where everyone is and what the situation each group is in. Definitely loved the Arya bit (not the Ed Sheeran part), definitely loved my boy the Hound, definitely loved seeing Jorah for a second.

Did what a first episode is supposed to do, got me fucking hyped.
 

Tirin

God-Emperor of Tealkind
Moderator
I was pleased, and as usual the Hound was one of the best guys in the whole world. I'm just waitin' for Stannis to make his triumphant comeback and solve all the world's problems.

Just... just waiting here. For the totally inevitable.
 

AndyM03

Well-Known Member
Member
I'm curious to hear what you didn't like about the Ed Sheeran cameo. Do you just dislike Ed Sheeran, or how the scene was handled?
Personally I fault the cinematography. Didn't need the close up on his face. He's honestly got a weird look that I reckon fits in a mediaeval world and he did a decent acting job. He deleted his Twitter after some backlash and I feel bad about it tbh, nothing tooooo wrong with the idea in theory.
I was pleased, and as usual the Hound was one of the best guys in the whole world. I'm just waitin' for Stannis to make his triumphant comeback and solve all the world's problems.

Just... just waiting here. For the totally inevitable.
N'aw man, after his daughter and that piss poor attempt at a siege?
They butchered our boys character. Show Stannis is dead to me. (Literally)
 

The Hound

Just Monika
Member
I'm curious to hear what you didn't like about the Ed Sheeran cameo. Do you just dislike Ed Sheeran, or how the scene was handled?
Honestly didn't even know who it was until after the episode when people were losing their mind. I just didn't like the scene to begin with, the way it was shot, the content, it just felt unnecessary and then to have multiple close ups of his face didn't help either. I don't mind cameos but have it have some point, like if that scene ended with his throat being slit I would have probably liked it a bit more.
 

Requiem

Well-Known Member
Member
It was a character building moment. It's showing the viewer who Arya is and what she's after. Not that we don't know at this point, but it's setting it up for the rest of the season. It's the beginning of the big pay off. She's just honest about wanting to kill Cersei and the common soldier can't comprehend the level she's gotten to.
 

AndyM03

Well-Known Member
Member
And it humanises the Lannister soldiers who really just want to go home at this point. It puts Jaimies concerns into reality, you heard the northerners mention it too. A lot of veterans have died in the war of five kings. These nice, young lads who just want to go home? These are the soldiers of summer, and winter is here. Builds potential for a Jaime led Lannister mutiny or something similar.

Also I think there are some parallels to a previous Lannister soldiers and Arya scene, but I found that online.

There was definitely purpose to the scene, and it will serve as an excellent contrast to later episodes I bet.
 

Tirin

God-Emperor of Tealkind
Moderator
N'aw man, after his daughter and that piss poor attempt at a siege?
They butchered our boys character. Show Stannis is dead to me. (Literally)
The daughter thing made sense. It was pretty goddamn brutal, no doubt - but this is a man who sincerely, and quite rightfully, believed that he was the world's only hope for salvation, a messiah who had to give up the thing he loved more than any other for the chance at victory. He sacrificed what was, to him, the most precious life in the world for the sake of all others, present and future. And despite that, he was wrong. Such is the danger of prophecy.

The siege was dumb, but Ramsey's "lel muh twinny gud mans XDDD" was one of the worst fucking cases of plot armor I have ever seen in a television series. Like, yeah, I'm sure those guys who very much realize that their lives are on the life aren't gonna see you against the snow when you're always wearing black or dark brown, you jag. They probably won't notice the torches being lit in the middle of the night, either! Fuck that.

I liked the scene with the Lannister soldiers a lot, though. Nice, chill contrast from how 95% of the soldiers of Westeros are angry murdering rapists. These boys are the men that their kingdom needs, though they don't know it yet.
 

AndyM03

Well-Known Member
Member
I honestly think the morale impact of burning your own daughter outweighs any weather change, but I do understand why it wasn't the biggest stretch.
And yeah, they just wanted to shit on him at that point to build up Ramsey some more, forsaking realism.
 
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