Ended Shadow's League of Legends Mafia: Season II - GAME OVER (Anti-Town Victory)
- Thread starter Shadow
- Start date
Your and Andy's defense of him provides a whole lotta useful information if he flips scum, and as of now we (or, at least, I) have nothing better to go on. I think it's easily worth.
Woah, woah, woah. Easy, you've been here the whole time and are a Native Machentertainmentian, you even pay your taxes with activity on the rest of the forum. But Req brought in these assholes, destroying our border security, and letting them take up mafia slots from hard working Machentertainmentians who pay their activity taxes.
No, I can't go on with this shtick. Unlynch Req That said, I personally don't want to random lynch Tolvan day 1 because of how horrible I was to him and Ro by not telling them they'd flip anti-town (Not that I feel guilty, just that I would if I proceeded to immediately attempt to lynch him the following game), but I will not stop you guys because it's random and as good as any other.
Of course if he does something genuinely scummy I'm in favor of killing him.
He's no more "exceptionally" unlikely to be scum than anyone else, and your incorrect assertion to that effect makes me suspicious of you, as well. Either way, the chance at recovering a lot of very useful data from a lynch is a lot better than the chance of recovering fucking nothing, so unless you can provide a reasonable alternative I doubt I'm going to change my vote.
Which might work if the scum is retarded, but Tolvan isn't retarded. Holding out on lynching anybody until he "does something genuinely scummy" is just stupid.
He is, actually. If you see somebody acting like an incompetent Townie, 95% of the time, turns out that they're actually incompetent Townies. If he'd been acting super incompetent, in such a way that it was downright detrimental to the Town, I'd be inclined to roll those dice anyway, but he hasn't been doing that. He's just made a couple of jokes at one point that arguably could be interpreted as having the potential to go against a couple of the rules if taken at face value, (but a lot more arguably, shouldn't be).
I should clarify. If there is a reason to lynch specifically him, I'll get in on this. As in, doing something suspicious ("genuinely scummy" was a poor choice of words). Otherwise, out of the kindness of my soul, I'd rather random lynch someone else who didn't get thoroughly violated by the mechanics of my game because we're all equally unlikely to actually flip anti-town. I will have zero qualms with lynching him if he becomes suspicious. Unless someone is more suspicious, then I'd prefer to lynch them for obvious reasons.
Tirin didn't originally have a reason to lynch Tolvan, it was practically random. However based on people's reactions, now he does have a valid reason. On day 1 any lynch we're making is essentially random, but not completely because certain people have more knowledge and will be prodding us away from the random names we throw out to lynch. If I understand Tirin's move here, it's to lynch Tolvan because a few people have already tried to prod the town away from pursuing this lynch.
If we just keep moving on from random person to random person, we will eventually find someone that nobody cares enough to defend, and we will probably end up lynching them. But that will give us no information because nobody gave enough of a shit to defend them from being essentially RNG lynched. Because people have expressed hesitance to lynch Tolvan over other random people day 1, it will give us some small amount of information if we lynch him: that there were a few people who immediately did not want to lynch him.
It's not like this is definitely the best play for the day or something, and even if we kill him the information may not be very useful because if he flips town it doesn't really tell us anything about the people defending him, and if he flips mafia it may just be a coincidence that they defended him, but it's day 1 and it's better to go for a lynch that gives you a tiny bit of information that one that gives you no information at all.
Lynch Tolvan
I guess the way we're seeing it is since we're gonna take his care free posts as a sign of inexperienced town, and as Easy said, it's pretty likely he'll turn up town, we wanna take a 1/14 chance of hitting scum rather than the 1/15. But I know you guys are feeling like that's pretty negligible, and I guess you do learn a bit from Tolvan which at this point would be the only reason I'd go along with it, but I was just feeling it'd be better to lynch someone else.
I've got no reason to believe this is true, and I'm not going to take making mistakes of any kind as a sign that he isn't Mafia. Now that you and Andy have been defending him, you've made his death potentially much more profitable than a random lynch, 'cause if he scum we know who to fuck with. If he isn't, that's unfortunate - but you've provided no convincing reason to believe he isn't.
I don't like this lynch at all. I don't like how Tirin is pushing it. I don't like how WT is adding to it. Same as last game of mafia, we are not no lynching, but we are also not pushing a lynch through as fast as possible. There needs to be more than "Scummy looking post. Now you DIE".
Personally, I think Tolvan is fine. It's similar to what he was doing last game, and he was town, despite the game saying otherwise.
Personally, I think Tolvan is fine. It's similar to what he was doing last game, and he was town, despite the game saying otherwise.
I've been reading the past few posts and it appears that Tolvan is the first case that sparked serious discussion.
For now, I think we need to discuss more and I want to hear from some of the others.
Tirin is definitely pushing it in a brute-esque way, but in the same vein, his rational makes sense. If we lynch Tolvan and he turns out to be scum, then we have the leads of Easy and Andy. If Tolvan turns out as a Town, then we can be suspicious of Tirin. Lynching Tolvan would definitely pull up more leads than picking someone at random.
For now, I think we need to discuss more and I want to hear from some of the others.
My pushing the lynch has no bearing on whether or not the person is scum, and you don't get to decide what we do, because you ain't the mod. A quick lynch is unlikely to hit scum, a slow lynch is unlikely to hit scum; a lynch on Tolvan, while unlikely to hit scum, can provide valuable information to the town whether he's scum or not.
I wouldn't stick my neck out for Tolvan right now if I had anything to do with him. He's just another number out of our 15, except that I reckon he's probably town. Honestly if he turned up scum and you all lynch me and Easy I don't think you'd get very far. Any other day I'd understand your assumption that we're connected, hell even on day 1 too, but we're only a few serious posts in and I've decided to put myself against the grain.
Ro, last game didn't you want a bandwagon like this to happen, except that you didn't want it to actually hammer in and end the day? Is it simply Tirin's hyper aggressiveness making you wary?
He's not giving orders, he's speaking his mind. Regardless of your aggressive playstyle, chill out a little bit.
Looks a lot like telling people what to do to me, and I'm not in the business of giving a fuck about it.
'It doesn't matter how dumb a lynch is; if somebody points out how dumb it is, then it becomes a smart lynch.'
Yeah, I ain't buying it. Let's say we lynch Tolvan, and we look at Easy and Andy (and Ro3 and myself now, since we're also against it). What do they say? The lynch was random, even for a Day 1 lynch, and they weren't gonna waste the day on a quick baseless lynch. That defense is pretty fucking legit. Certainly more than "I was okay with risking telegraphing my allegiance to my scumbuddy right away" line of thinking that the accusation would require. Yeah, you can run the whole "well that could very well be what they want you to think, that's why they thought they could get away with it", but that's WIFOM bullshit. Even with a scumflip, I don't see how we could distinguish scumbuddy from 'townie with legitimate objections' in this scenario.
If we're gonna lynch Tolvan, let's do it because either we think he's scum, or we would get actual leads from his death regardless of what he flips. So far I see neither of those things.
If we're gonna lynch Tolvan, let's do it because either we think he's scum, or we would get actual leads from his death regardless of what he flips. So far I see neither of those things.
The only 'lead' I have is you, Tirin, being flat out wrong about Tolvan giving information if we lynch him. You could have been trying to bluff your way forward with that line of reasoning, since, it's usually a solid line of reasoning (Just not in this case, as Easy, Stealthy and I have pointed out), but it's a pretty weak lead, if you can even call it that. That being said, as to not seem like i'm trying to filibuster the day,
Lynch Tirin
I know you've had a string of early deaths in mafia so I feel pretty bad about this one. Your aggro play is probably just you being you, (Not throwing shade there I promise,) But it could also just be a bold play to act like you've got nothing to hide. I am not really convicted in this lynch, but this should cause some discussion I think. There are plenty of players who still need to say something though.
Lynch Tirin
I know you've had a string of early deaths in mafia so I feel pretty bad about this one. Your aggro play is probably just you being you, (Not throwing shade there I promise,) But it could also just be a bold play to act like you've got nothing to hide. I am not really convicted in this lynch, but this should cause some discussion I think. There are plenty of players who still need to say something though.