Ended Witch Hunt (Mafia) (Game End, Partial Town Victory)

[Jeroth]

Jeroth was pretty quick to tear my post apart in an attempt to make it seem like inane babblings. Jeroth, have you ever experienced Ro3's Random Accusations? Well now you have, minus the random part. The parts you quoted and tried to downplay were meant to be insignificant. Except for when you quoted the entire point of the post about how the mafia talk about facts. That was hilarious, because it was actually the ENTIRE point of the post. Can't exactly downplay that. Mafia.

I didn't need to tear apart your post to make it seem like inane babbling - it's what it was to start with.

The underlined is as close as Tag Ross ever came to actually saying what his gut was telling him. That's it... His opinion that chickenspleen was putting in too much effort... something that had already been echoed by nearly everyone before him.

Seriously, not only is he just repeating what town is saying, but it still feels like he isn't following his gut. I should mention that mafia tend to base their arguments around facts. Compare my post right now to Tag's. A lot of what I'm saying can be disputed against. His posts cannot, because they are simple truths. If you are town, look at your posts. I Ro3 guarantee that your discussions look closer to mine than to Tag's.

The entire lynch is: "Guys, listen to me, in this game of deceit, I'm totally an expert and emotional pleas prove your town and facts that can deride my argument means your obviously mafia."

You still never addressed my post about how we should discuss and figure things out. Instead, you're STILL trying to get Tag Ross lynched and rush into the next night phase.

Lynch Ro Ro Ro

Alright, so here's my take on day 1 meta. Bandwagon on a person. Bandwagon means to get a sizable number of votes on one person. The easiest way to check somone's alignment is to see how they jump on the bandwagons. Mafia always feel compelled to get at least 1 of their votes on a bandwagon. If you don't like the way someone jumped on the lynchtrain, switch the focus to them. It's all about generating discussion and reads. You just have to use the vote as a tool to do it.

The man who claimed that "facts" mean that you're mafia member used them on Day 1 to guide the town. The man who encouraged discussion is trying to suddenly shut it down without explanation. You've entirely flipped from Day 1 into the new day. You seem like scum that's rushing into the next phase after killing a townie - after all, with two townies already dead, it'd be a safe win for the mafia, wouldn't it?

Going forward, this is lynching on Day 1.

D1: Town is killed by Lynch (7 Town, 3 Mafia) - Chickenspleen
N1: Town is killed ( 6 Town, 3 Mafia) - TC - 33.3% chance of hitting scum the next day
D2: Town is killed by Lynch (5 Town, 3 Mafia)
N2: Town is killed (4 Town, 3 Mafia) - 42% chance of hitting scum the next day
D3: Town is killed by Lynch ( 3 Town, 3 Mafia) - Mafia Wins

And with everything going to hell in a hand basket, we have a 33% chance of hitting scum. It seems like Ro wants this phase to be over since it's the ONLY opportunity that the mafia has at losing. Once this day phase ends, it'll be seven players left. Assuming that there is three mafia members, it's four town and three scum - a much easier narrative to control than six town against three scum.

 

[AndyM03]

I'm happy to lynch Ro Ro, but I feel guilty not saying or doing much. This day has really thrown me off. That being said, i'm 69% sure i've got more posts than Shadow so i'm all good.
Lynch Ro Ro Ro
And come on man, i'm not that angry.
I'm just Australian.

 

[Firedemon]

5 to lynch
Tolvan: 1 (Easy)
Tag Ross: 1 (Ro Ro Ro)
Ro Ro Ro*: 2 (Jeroth, Andy)

Day will end at 11:59 pm US Central, Sunday.

 

[Ro Ro Ro]

The entire lynch is: "Guys, listen to me, in this game of deceit, I'm totally an expert and emotional pleas prove your town and facts that can deride my argument means your obviously mafia."

No, my argument was (and still is) look at this player who is not playing like he is town at any point in time during this game whatsoever. Town needs to have reads. Tag Ross has zero.

You still never addressed my post about how we should discuss and figure things out. Instead, you're STILL trying to get Tag Ross lynched and rush into the next night phase.

The game has been solved sir. The game doesn't need to have any more discussion, because the mafia have already been identified. The issue now I guess is to convince the town they can trust me despite your best efforts.

You seem like scum that's rushing into the next phase after killing a townie - after all, with two townies already dead, it'd be a safe win for the mafia, wouldn't it?

Not really. Even if you lynch me today, and we're at 4 town, 3 mafia, then all the town has to do is lynch Tag, Jeroth, and Andy on consecutive days.

And with everything going to hell in a hand basket, we have a 33% chance of hitting scum. It seems like Ro wants this phase to be over since it's the ONLY opportunity that the mafia has at losing. Once this day phase ends, it'll be seven players left. Assuming that there is three mafia members, it's four town and three scum - a much easier narrative to control than six town against three scum.

we have a 33% chance of hitting scum

33% chance

THIS ISN'T A GAME OF CHANCE. It's a social game in which mafia lie, while town try to collaborate to figure out who the liars are. That's it.
And your 33% percent doesn't even take into account the happenings of the game. Easy is town, Tolvan is town, I am town. Just removing us 3 turns it to 50%, then you do reads on the other players to find that some players are acting more like town than others. By my calculations you're left with a 1000% chance you hit scum today.

Anyway, I'm roleclaiming mason with Tolvan. In this particular "witch hunt" themed mafia game, the role is Peaceful Pagan. I'm not roleclaiming because I'm worried I might get lynched, I'm roleclaiming because I want the results I set out to get this day.

 

[Tirin]

View attachment 210
I realize that this is a mediocre argument, but I just really like bringing up that image.

I haven't played Mafia in years because I always end up dead before day 3, 'cause scum can't handle my righteousness and insight. You ain't shit, TC.

 

[Tag_Ross]

Anyway, I'm roleclaiming mason with Tolvan.

Yo @Tolvan is Ro scum?

 

[Easy]

Yo @Tolvan is Ro scum?

That's your response?

Smells like bullshit. Unlynch Tolvan.

 

[Tag_Ross]

It is for now, I'll post a bigger post later.

 

[Jeroth]

THIS ISN'T A GAME OF CHANCE. It's a social game in which mafia lie, while town try to collaborate to figure out who the liars are. That's it.

And your 33% percent doesn't even take into account the happenings of the game. Easy is town, Tolvan is town, I am town. Just removing us 3 turns it to 50%, then you do reads on the other players to find that some players are acting more like town than others. By my calculations you're left with a 1000% chance you hit scum today.

I never said it was a game of chance, Ro, but you're a fool if you think chance isn't a factor in this game.

You're absolute right that it's a social game in which the mafia lie, but here are the absolute facts of the game.

• TC and Chickenspleen were town.
• Each Town member knows they're a member of the town, but don't know who else is town.
• Mafia knows their fellow scum and knows who town members are.

I know for certain that I'm town. By claiming that two other players are town without a second thought? That seems to be in the department of scum.

Anyway, I'm roleclaiming mason with Tolvan. In this particular "witch hunt" themed mafia game, the role is Peaceful Pagan. I'm not roleclaiming because I'm worried I might get lynched, I'm roleclaiming because I want the results I set out to get this day.

That just sounds suspicious. For all we know, Tolvan could be one of your scum buddy claiming mason to help you out.

 

[Tolvan]

Ro's telling the truth. We're Pagans.

That being said, since that's out there I obviously have reason to trust Ro, though I can't necessarily prove it. As such, I agree that Tag is acting kinda strangely, though I've only really been part of a couple other games before. I went back and skimmed an old game just to try and get a better handle on peoples' playstyles though.

Anyway, I'm still not entirely sure what to look for in all honestly. Gonna go with Lynch Tag for now, though.

 

[Ro Ro Ro]

So. Enough with defending myself from jeroths never ending attacks. I'm simply curious at this point: is this jeroths play style? It's certainly very unique. Something people would notice if it suddenly appeared or disappeared from one game to another.

I've obviously not played with him, so I'd like to know.

 

[Tolvan]

So. Enough with defending myself from jeroths never ending attacks. I'm simply curious at this point: is this jeroths play style? It's certainly very unique. Something people would notice if it suddenly appeared or disappeared from one game to another.

I've obviously not played with him, so I'd like to know.

Can't say for certain at this point, but at least on Day One he was playing how I remember.

 

[coolpool2]

Just as a quick note, I have very bad memory. I can't remember people's play styles in mafia.

I don't get any major scum vibes from Ro right now. I am a bit suspicious of Tag but I want to wait to see what he has to say before I lynch him. I also want to see what Shadow has to say about this.

 

[Firedemon]

5 to lynch
Tag Ross: 2 (Ro Ro Ro, Tolvan)
Ro Ro Ro*: 2 (Jeroth, Andy)

Day will end at 11:59 pm US Central, Sunday.

 

[Jeroth]

All right. Time for some analyzation.

9 Players Left. - 3 Scum, 6 Town

-Jeroth - Town. Accused by Ro as Scum.
-Tag Ross - Scum Group #1 - Accused by Ro
-Andy - Scum Group #1 - Accused by Ro
-Ro Ro Ro - Mason / Scum Group #2
-Tolvan - Mason / Scum Group #2
-Easy - Softclaimed Town. Supported by Ro.
-Shadow - Lurking.
-Coolpool - Lurking.
-Req - Lurking.

All right. Now that we're done with the rainbow, it seems like these are the two options for today's lynch.

Tag and Ro.

Given his role claim, I'm willing to take a step back from my pursuit to look at this.

If we lynch Ro today, there are two outcomes.

(1) He flips Mason, then Tolvan is a confirmed Townie and his suspicion about Tag being mafia is something to do on Day 3 - it would leave 4 Town and 3 Mafia the next day. We would bandwagon onto Tag and hope he flips mafia. Day 4 would be 3 Town, 2 Mafia. We'd lynch Andy going after his suspicion and if he flips mafia, 2 town and 1 Mafia - game ends on Day 5 with in a LYLO scenario trying to find the third scum.
(2) He flips Mafia, then Tolvan is confirmed scum - it would leave 5 Town and 2 Mafia on Day 3. We would bandwagon onto Tolvan and he'd flip mafia. Day 4 would be 4 Town, 1 Mafia. We would have two opportunities to catch the last scum on Day 4 and 5.

If we lynch Tag, there are the two outcomes.

(1) He flips town. Day 3 would be 4 Town and 3 mafia. We're left hoping that the mafia consist of Ro and Tolvan. We're left on day 5 with a LYLO situation, trying to find the last scum.
(2) He flips mafia. Ro and Tolvan are less likely to be scum. We pursue down Ro's tracks and hope that we hit the scum, along the way.

I'm more partial to lynching Ro, strictly due to the fact that if he turns up scum - we have a guaranteed scum buddy in Tolvan.

 

[coolpool2]

Tag Ross hasn't done anything too suspicious other than just being inactive. If he is a town, then he's just a really unproductive and quiet town. I guess that's not much worse than an unproductive and talkative town, but that's beside the point.

Also keep in mind that Tolvan and Ro aren't necessarily in a mason. There are other roles that might be able to find out the alignment of a townie, like a cop or something. Still, I'd rather not lynch Ro. Not because I have a special reason, just a feeling. The feeling could be wrong though.

 

[Requiem]

I'm not lurking, Jeroth, I posted last night, lol. I'm lurking about as much as everyone else who didn't post at all during the Friday-Monday lull in activity.

As for what's happening right now, I can't say that I agree with Ro. I fully agree that Tag isn't doing much, is only really echoing things said by others, and that he's not contributing anything really, but that makes me think he's just shitty Town rather than mafia. That's what my gut is telling me at this point.

As for Jeroth, I really don't know about him, but he's feeling like Town at this point. That could change, but we'll see what happens.

Ro's roleclaim is also a bit disconcerting to me as I don't think it was entirely necessarily. I suppose that having unwavering faith in your position works for yourself, but if other people are having trouble accepting a single player's word, at least some discussion should be had to further that. Using the "I'm right, just listen to me already" point rarely works because we have no reason to trust your word. None of you have any reason to trust me, either. It's a free-for-all for the moment. By roleclaiming what seems to be a Town role and including Tolvan in that, you make Tolvan a target when he didn't need to be, so that could end up causing trouble for the Town as the mafia now know to target him.

Too much doesn't add up about your plays this round, Ro. I want to trust you, but I'm not convinced I should. I don't want to have to lynch you just to find out if you're telling the truth, but with me thinking Tag is just shitty Town and all of the issues I have with your plays this round, that's feeling likely. I don't want to just jump straight into this though, so I'll do a hard FoS Ro for the moment. Let's all talk this out more and go from there. We have time.

 

[AndyM03]

I'm simply curious at this point: is this jeroths play style? It's certainly very unique.

The dude's just been using the only thing anyone can believe in a mafia game, chance and statistics. He's been rational the entire game, which frankly makes me slightly afraid of him. That being said, I would only lynch him on a later day assuming we keep killing Townies. Sure it's a social game, but playing it just that way is a quick way of getting swept up in emotions. Certain people, like you and Tolvan being connected, gives us greater value out of one lynch. Like Req said, it's not fun lynching someone just to see if they're telling the truth, but at this point i'm agreeing with Jeroth's suspicions, and he's bloody well got me tagged as Mafia. I guess I'll try and dispute that when my time comes.
When I wanted to lynch Chicken, it's cause I wanted value out of it. I thought it'd give us some insight as to TC's actions. It would have been great if TC survived, it seems like the discussion would have been informative. Now lynching you will either win us the game or save us from troubling Tolvan on later days, increasing our chance of pulling a mafia.
This is a game that can just as easily be won by throwing darts at a board (Not that it's a good idea) But I don't like you being all surprised at Jeroth playing like this, as if it's something unbelievable. It makes clear sense to me anyway.

 

[Easy]

I was gonna say something about pagans being basically witches, and re-lynch Tolvan as a joke, but fuck it. Gonna be serious.

At the same time, I'd rather not share any more of my thoughts than really necessary. Surprise, right? Nah, not really. Yeah, I figure just about everybody knows I can get really long-winded in Mafia, but that's generally after I've watched the game go on for a couple Day phases first, or until I spot a slip-up. Here, too, I still don't have all that much to add besides some general suspicion.

That said: Maybe I'm a little biased here, because this situation is practically a play-by-play of the end of Firefly Mafia (where Ro did the same thing, and got practically the same reactions from scumbuddies Easy and LegendaryMe as he's getting from Tag and Jeroth), but I'm inclined to side with Ro here. Sure, I'm as big on logic-based lynching as anyone, but the fact is that the logic usually just isn't there in the first place. For the most part, scum players are careful to avoid any obvious mistakes. If they're trying really hard and also aren't exceptionally savvy, which is usually the case, they often end up going really overboard with the logical approach and trying to back up everything they say with some kind of flimsy, meaningless justification.

Basically, the point is this: Solid logical arguments for lynching are generally pro-Town, but very rare. Weak logical arguments for lynching are very common, and often scummy. Which is why it's so very easy to get a scum vibe from a badly-played Townie, which is what makes me hesitant about lynching Tag. I have no idea how good or bad he is, and Ro himself said he always gets a scum vibe from him (usually incorrectly, I'd assume). At the same time, I'm very against a lynch on Ro, and disinclined to lynch Tolvan as well. Partly because I think it's a lot more likely that his claim is genuine than not, and partly for all the other reasons that the "because more information" party didn't consider. Like how we don't even know if there's a Doctor in this game or not.

 

[Ro Ro Ro]

Alright, so to follow in Jeroth's example and take a step back, I'm going to switch back to day 1 Ro3. Though, I'm still about 30 steps over to the right.

Both Req and Easy are not happy with either of the lynches proposed. Knowing that 2-3 players must be mafia, I feel like you two would have someone you're willing to mention instead. I personally don't have any other suggestions, because I still feel like I've been through other players' posts 10 times and found little to nothing wrong. Admittedly, I'm probably also suffering from bias.

Easy, I remember that game. I think there was even another game that was very similar. It's what I do, and I do it because I get such a strong feeling that I am right, that I stop caring if others get it. As long as when the game ends, I was right.

I love the mason role. It lets me put every thought down. So that when it's over, I can go back through my notes and say "hey look, I did think that". There was this one game on another forum where I was Mason with two others. That chat was filled with my random thoughts, and my personal favourite was when I felt that the SK might be switching bodies, and that one of the player's style changed slightly. Then at the end of the game, when the SK won, I was just happy that I had noticed it. The other masons thought that I was mafia because of all the random shit coming from nowhere, and in a way the SK thing was a Boy Who Cried Wolf sort of deal where noone would believe me, but when I was right, it felt pretty cool, especially when the SK commended me for it after the game.

Back on topic. Let's hear from Shadow. He's another player that would probably remember how I play. Roleclaiming to get shit done is not exactly new for me, I can tell you that.