Who we are as a community

[Easy]

Idunno why we're still doing the thing where some of us pretend to think [men who are attracted to] traps aren't gay, just for the sake of continually having a mock argument about it. When you keep acting like it's too unbearable for you to admit to yourself and others that you've got some objectively gay tendencies at heart, it really starts looking to everyone like you've got a serious problem with gay people and/or gayness in general. Like you're the sort of person who sees that term itself as being derisive.

In this Day and Age? smh.

 

[Colonel Thunder]

That awkward moment when I was about to give Dunsparce a shout-out for being a lot more friendly, making good forum comics, and noting how he's been way less of an edgelord as time's gone on.

At least the comics bit is still accurate.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people are fine with others (in this case Dunsparce) having really unpopular, arguably hurtful and destructive beliefs. Just like, don't make posts that reflect those beliefs so strongly that your posts get reported.

 

[Shadow]

I doubt I’ll be here much longer.

Bye~

 

[Tirin]

As for jokes that hurt people’s feelings, I’ve got a question for you. Can you think of anything in the world that’s funny that doesn’t involve someone else’s suffering? If you can, that’s the exception rather than the rule. If you want to put an end to comedy that hurts people’s feelings, you’ll pretty much have to put an end to comedy itself.

"I eat ass" doesn't involve somebody else's suffering (other than arguably TC or Blooky's personal embarrassment, which they apparently are more than fine with). If anything, it's closer to involving, uh... prettymuch exactly the opposite, at least for one party at a time. Comedy making people upset is an almost inevitable thing, I'll concede that - but choosing your comedy knowing that it'll make someone upset and, worse, possibly lead to getting someone hurt isn't very good. I've said some absolutely heinous shit (that was also extremely funny) in a small group of friends that would be unthinkable to say here and in many communities because it's an obviously different environment with different social norms.

I don’t believe in lines like that. I don’t believe that belonging to some group of people entitles you to any special treatment. If you think hurting people’s feelings is bad, it should always be bad. If you don’t, then ya don’t. That’s the Categorical Imperative, as it were.

That's kinda... where we're trying to come from, I think. To at least try to do better with hurting, or rather not hurting, people in general. That doesn't mean we can't argue or disagree; it doesn't even mean we can't insult or demean people here, I just think it should be done more on an individual basis and, ideally, more rarely.

If that's something that you're not okay with - then don't participate in it. I'm not gonna force your hand if you don't force mine, which I'm sure we can all agree on. If it's enough to get you to leave, fine; you'll be missed and I don't think we're going to magically stop being entertaining because we're trying to be nicer.

Idunno why we're still doing the thing where some of us pretend to think [men who are attracted to] traps aren't gay, just for the sake of continually having a mock argument about it. When you keep acting like it's too unbearable for you to admit to yourself and others that you've got some objectively gay tendencies at heart, it really starts looking to everyone like you've got a serious problem with gay people and/or gayness in general. Like you're the sort of person who sees that term itself as being derisive.

As Mayor, I am going to decline to comment on this clearly personal attack other than by saying "I disagree; I do not identify as gay and I am not Kevin Spacey".

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people are fine with others (in this case Dunsparce) having really unpopular, arguably hurtful and destructive beliefs. Just like, don't make posts that reflect those beliefs so strongly that your posts get reported.

Dude can certainly believe and to no small extent post whatever he wants. If people aren't violating the rules or Constitution I, in general, do not give a fuck.

 

[Lumpy]

1.) Dunno what to tell you @Dunsparce except that I'm sorry you're bothered by the fact that most people here don't want to hurt each other, but that's the way it is.
2.) "Transgenderism" isn't a thing, but thanks for sparing us all your Hot Take about trans people.
3.) Actually I think tons of things are funny that don't rely on "someone else's suffering", and I think it's kinda weird that you don't.
4.) Guess you missed the part where the narrative that trans people are deceptive is harmful in that it gets trans people murdered, not just that it hurts people's feelings, and that being murdered isn't a self-imposed hurt.

1. The point of making fun of hurtful or uncomfortable things is to make those things less hurtful and uncomfortable. You're likely to have an easier time dealing with superficial insults by people that hate you if the people that like you have already armoured you to them.

2. He shouldn't feel the need to. Either his opinions are wrong, in which case challenging them will be beneficial to everyone in this community, or they are right and should be said.

3. Name them.

4. And you are suggesting that by using the meme, regardless of their opinions on trans people or crossdressers, regardless of context or connotation, these people are in part responsible for the murderous transphobes?

 

[Easy]

Eh, I can actually kinda get behind a fair amount of what Dunsparce said. There really is such a thing as witty, clever, and even, occasionally, even constructive humor that can and sometimes even should be made at somebody else's expense. There is such a thing as gross overreaction and self-victimization.

There is also such a thing as "boundaries," and yes, @Dunsparce, those often should just be respected because somebody really wants to have them so, most particularly if they're not even such broadly expansive and unreasonably-drawn boundaries that it's seriously constraining for the average person to just stay outside of them.

I'm obviously not going to say that you should even go so far as denying objective facts, like "it's gay to be more attracted to a woman with a penis than without, all other things equal, if you're a dude," just for other people's comfort. Here's me, not doing that very thing right now. (Though in all fairness, I wouldn't generally bother even mentioning that one if it didn't keep coming up outside of my actions; it's not something I'd care enough about to bring up myself.)

If you wanna make an argument that denouncing outright falsities and misconceptions is more important than emotional considerations of the deluded, then I can back you up on that, because I don't think it's actually good for the affected people in the long run (let alone society as a whole) to foster contentedness with falsehoods. But, understand: that really isn't something that comes up often. Most divisive issues are not matters of objective fact; and of those few that are, you're rarely (if ever) going to be in possession of all pertinent facts. (Me an' my pair of Science Degrees can do it for just a couple of the popular ones.)

And if you shoot off recklessly offending people without even having full knowledge of what you're talking about, you're not actually being righteous or productive in any positive way. You're being a nasty little bastard who just thinks his comfort and feelings of self-fulfillment come before those of the people who don't agree with him.

So yeah, in lieu of any of us having absolute working knowledge of all (or most) things, we draw lines and respect boundaries. We're social creatures, even the most antisocial among us, so it doesn't come all that unnaturally. I personally will tend to have an easier and more enjoyable time in the company of people who don't have very many trigger zones, and just have a couple of them myself, but that doesn't mean I won't respect a friend's right to have some boundaries I don't really have or see a need for myself.

If it ever really gets hard to stick to them, then we can have a talk about trying to rework them so he/she's less sensitive and I'm less restricted, or I can reevaluate the worth of hanging out with somebody I have to struggle to even hold conversation with... but really, it's pretty rare for such an extreme case to actually happen in reality. It's entirely possible to stick to reasonable limits for general company, without necessarily embracing every complaint any sensitive person has ever had on the internet, and instead of just ignoring the very concept of civility altogether.

 

[Colonel Thunder]

Some of y'all have weird AF goals in this thread.

 

[Tirin]

How very productive and meaningful, TC. I'm glad to see that you're embracing the nuances of people's thoughts and opinions so thoroughly by calling them bigots if they disagree with you. How's that serious post coming along?

 

[Lumpy]

U the real bigot tc

 

[Colonel Thunder]

When did I call some-ohshit.

My bad @Lumpy . That's what I get for shitposting memes while taking a dump. I totes read past the bigot wor

 

[Easy]

Either way, you know the whole point of this thread was to have a discussion right? That's a seriously out-of-place meme, here.

 

[Colonel Thunder]

Either way, you know the whole point of this thread was to have a discussion right? That's a seriously out-of-place meme, here.

I think the discussion s gotten real weird, but yeah it's a bad call to speed reaf/quick post when I'm at work and squeezing a post in with little thought. Especially given the context in this thread. This post itself will be the last exception.

 

[Lumpy]

I think the discussion s gotten real weird, but yeah it's a bad call to speed reaf/quick post when I'm at work and squeezing a post in with little thought. Especially given the context in this thread. This post itself will be the last exception.

Never, ever let that shit happen again. We don't tolerate your likes here.

 

[Easy]

That’s what’s truly funny to me, and that’s why there’s no such thing as evil speech.

Oh, fugg, I forgot to point this one out earlier. I'm gonna skip over the most obvious ones, though, like "speech that talks people into doing evil stuff," on the assumption that there's an answer like "that's their fault for going along with it." But how's about speech that misleads and/or outright deceives people? That's some pretty evil use of speech going on there, in my view, and there's only so far that you can stretch "it's their fault for being deceived."

 

[Elliot]

@Easy It's not gay for men to be attracted to women. That's just actually not what the word "gay" means. Argue whatever you like about crossdressing if you feel like you gotta have that fight for some reason, but you did say "women". But I'm gonna leave that argument there 'cause, not worth.

 

[Easy]

It is, however, gay for men to be particularly attracted to women with male genitalia. It's another thing entirely for the man to not be bothered by the presence of a penis, or to be attracted to the trap despite the presence of said penis, but it's objectively gay to have a preference for it - not that there's anything wrong with that. That's just actually what the word "gay" means, and I really wish we could all just accept that fact and settle the matter there.

 

[Dunsparce]

2.) "Transgenderism" isn't a thing

Well how 'bout that. We actually agree on something.

That awkward moment when I was about to give Dunsparce a shout-out for being a lot more friendly, making good forum comics, and noting how he's been way less of an edgelord as time's gone on.

I actually have made a conscious effort to amend my behavior, just not my convictions. I've found that I'm less entertained by antagonistic humor than I thought, so lately I've been trying to exploit you people for entertainment through other means (roleplay, as an example). And also, I kinda do want to be courteous to my "friends". I just don't think that I'm any more righteous for doing that than I would be otherwise.

"I eat ass" doesn't involve somebody else's suffering (other than arguably TC or Blooky's personal embarrassment, which they apparently are more than fine with).

Eating ass is fucking disgusting. Disgust is a hurtful feeling. That's why eating ass is funny. Admittedly, the existential concept of "eating ass" doesn't cause very much suffering, but then again, it's not very funny either.

There's a lot of examples like ass eating that don't seem to cause suffering at first, but I think if you really examine the things you find funny, you'll see what I mean.

Oh, fugg, I forgot to point this one out earlier. I'm gonna skip over the most obvious ones, though, like "speech that talks people into doing evil stuff," on the assumption that there's an answer like "that's their fault for going along with it." But how's about speech that misleads and/or outright deceives people? That's some pretty evil use of speech going on there, in my view, and there's only so far that you can stretch "it's their fault for being deceived."

... Shit that's actually a really good point. I'm not gonna say that lying is always evil. I brought up the Categorical Imperative earlier, but the greatest argument against that is the situation where somebody says "I'm gonna kill your kids. Where are they?" If lying is always wrong, then you have to tell the truth there. And I have to admit that I've lied to people just because I thought it would be funny. One time I told... Tag Ross, I think, that if he stared at the Unforgotten Quest website for ten minutes straight, some kind of big secret thing would happen. Nothing happened. That's a little evil of me I guess, but not so much that I need to be punished in any way.

So yeah. My opinion on the morality of lying is that it's contextual. (but that's kinda off topic)

 

[Tirin]

I actually have made a conscious effort to amend my behavior, just not my convictions. I've found that I'm less entertained by antagonistic humor than I thought, so lately I've been trying to exploit you people for entertainment through other means (roleplay, as an example). And also, I kinda do want to be courteous to my "friends". I just don't think that I'm any more righteous for doing that than I would be otherwise.

I've noticed, and I appreciate that effort. Nobody's gonna fault you for anything but the most horrible convictions if you make an effort to be chill, fun to hang out with, and at least somewhat respectful.

Eating ass is fucking disgusting. Disgust is a hurtful feeling. That's why eating ass is funny. Admittedly, the existential concept of "eating ass" doesn't cause very much suffering, but then again, it's not very funny either.

There's a lot of examples like ass eating that don't seem to cause suffering at first, but I think if you really examine the things you find funny, you'll see what I mean.

Yeah, well... that's just like, your opinion, man. And it's really more funny because it's an embarrassing and personal topic that suddenly came out on stream, whether legitimate or no.

I brought up the Categorical Imperative earlier, but the greatest argument against that is the situation where somebody says "I'm gonna kill your kids. Where are they?" If lying is always wrong, then you have to tell the truth there. And I have to admit that I've lied to people just because I thought it would be funny. One time I told... Tag Ross, I think, that if he stared at the Unforgotten Quest website for ten minutes straight, some kind of big secret thing would happen. Nothing happened. That's a little evil of me I guess, but not so much that I need to be punished in any way.

So yeah. My opinion on the morality of lying is that it's contextual. (but that's kinda off topic)

You're not obliged to either lie or tell the truth; the option is always open to just not tell somebody. Lying is still generally wrong (with some exceptions - for example, in games in which it is prevalent, such as Mafia, where it's encouraged and expected); lying just to be a dick, even if it is funny, certainly is.

 

[Easy]

Main thing is that you can't deny that there's such a thing as lying maliciously. I'd follow from there that this is a clear example of "evil speech."

 

[BlookyHannah]

Eating ass is awesome and not disgusting tyvm.
...Actually most things humans do are nasty ass eating included. Let's not lie. Your asshole is not clean. If someone's going to eat it, SCRUB IT.

In all seriousness, this is a community. The community should decide the standards. I'm not going to go regulate a forum full of bigots - I mean, I'm gonna be sad they exist, but I'm not going to waste life on that. I'm just not going to be there. And if you guys were insufferable assholes I wouldn't have come on board. Just make an effort to be respectful, not be horrible, and grow/learn? And when someone you respect tells you you're being a dickhole, listen to them. Cause you're probably hurting them, and that's not what you want to do to your friends.

TC: "PUNS. PUNS DON'T HURT A PARTICULAR GROUP! PUNS HURT EVERYONE. EQUALLY." Just, you know, as an aside.

And ya'll should know I'm a raging "SJW' on FB. I really enjoy being that on that platform. And, you know, I'm a huge queer who has pretty much devoted her life to thinking these jokes aren't okay. But you're grown ups and you're alright, so just keep doing what you're doing and be cool when someone calls you out because it's too much.