Ended Shadow's League of Legends Mafia: Season II - GAME OVER (Anti-Town Victory)

[Tirin]

My play isn't aggressive, and it in fact started out as being rando - but your defending the fuck out of him for no reason is enough for me to become suspicious of you and Easy. Saying dumb joke-y shit doesn't establish him as town, and you're literally being an idiot if you think that; using it as a defense for him, then getting hostile when I refuse to back down reflects a lot more on you as scum than it does on me.

I guess getting rid of me immediately would be pretty good for you scum, too, but it'll reflect poorly af on you when I flip town.

 

[Whitetiger]

Regardless of the Tolvan situation, I find it hard to believe Tirin to be scum based on this interaction. I don't think mafia, even Tirin, would try to spearhead a lynch in this way on day 1. As I've said I think Mafia tends to try to just nudge their partners away from being RNG picked day 1 rather than anything overt. It's harder for Tirin to come up with excuse to not lynch one of his own partners now because of his play, and I don't think scum really puts themselves in that position.

Plus, mafia knows that whomever they push to lynch is going to flip town almost every time (with there being a slight chance of hitting a neutral). Why spearhead a lynch day 1 if you know that you'll look much scummier once the lynch is over and the person has likely flipped town? I know there's WIFOM bullshit but as it stands I doubt Tirin is scum here, and I wouldn't lynch him, at least today.

Thus I'll be keeping my vote on Tolvan.

 

[Steal Thy Kill]

idk. Only other things I have (which are not much), is maybe Tiger for bandwagoning (I know Tirin's Tirin. Can't remember if this is typical of Tiger though). Then the half-joke of lynching Firedemon because he didn't immediately lynch TC, and ergo they are obvious scummy fuckbuddies. Neither of which I'm convinced by atm.

Frankly, I'm not feeling rushed so long as we keep talking. Deadline is Sunday. More discussion the better.

 

[Easy]

My take? I may not have very strong reason to believe Tolvan's pro-Town, but it's definitely more than I have for anyone else. Yeah, it's Day 1, so that isn't saying very much, and yes, we're going to end up having to pick a sacrifice by Sunday regardless, but that ought to be somebody who at least has a 1 in 11 chance of flipping scum. If I thought that Tolvan was such a person, then I definitely wouldn't have vowed to eat my hat if that happened for him.

Not that I was actually wearing one, so it was an imaginary hat in any case, but still.

The only 'lead' I have is you, Tirin, being flat out wrong about Tolvan giving information if we lynch him. You could have been trying to bluff your way forward with that line of reasoning, since, it's usually a solid line of reasoning (Just not in this case, as Easy, Stealthy and I have pointed out), but it's a pretty weak lead, if you can even call it that. That being said, as to not seem like i'm trying to filibuster the day,
Lynch Tirin
I know you've had a string of early deaths in mafia so I feel pretty bad about this one. Your aggro play is probably just you being you, (Not throwing shade there I promise,) But it could also just be a bold play to act like you've got nothing to hide. I am not really convicted in this lynch, but this should cause some discussion I think. There are plenty of players who still need to say something though.

This actually makes Andy an interesting case. His earlier statements were actually pretty generally correct, but this happened after I said that thing about people who looked like incompetent Townies almost always actually being Townies. Hell, he said the same thing, so he himself should have been fully aware that Tirin wasn't a good lynch.

That said, it's only been a day since game start. Waiting a while longer before committing to anyone probably won't help much, but it can't hurt either.

 

[Tirin]

My take? I may not have very strong reason to believe Tolvan's pro-Town, but it's definitely more than I have for anyone else. Yeah, it's Day 1, so that isn't saying very much, and yes, we're going to end up having to pick a sacrifice by Sunday regardless, but that ought to be somebody who at least has a 1 in 11 chance of flipping scum. If I thought that Tolvan was such a person, then I definitely wouldn't have vowed to eat my hat if that happened for him.

Y'know, another thing I want to see is Tolvan defending himself, since I don't think he's said shit since people have started lynching him, which is pretty fuckin' weird.

This actually makes Andy an interesting case. His earlier statements were actually pretty generally correct, but this happened after I said that thing about people who looked like incompetent Townies almost always actually being Townies. Hell, he said the same thing, so he himself should have been fully aware that Tirin wasn't a good lynch.

I disagree with the idea of incompetent Townies usually being Townies - though that's pretty obvious, since I think you're scum.

Andy is totally scum, though, even if you're not.

 

[Easy]

idk. Only other things I have (which are not much), is maybe Tiger for bandwagoning (I know Tirin's Tirin. Can't remember if this is typical of Tiger though).

Whitetiger's always like this. I'm pretty confident he's Town.

 

[AndyM03]

Oh it's not a good lynch, but Day 1 lynches are never perfect. I was torn between that, Whitetiger, and no lynch at all. I thought I'd take some charge and get some discussion going.
Oh and I just remembered that 'cause of timezones the deadline isn't thaaat close and Stealthy is right, nobody should feel rushed.
I too want to see Tolvan defend himself, but I haven't been looking to see if he's online or not so I can't tell if he's busy or a bastard.

 

[Easy]

Y'know, another thing I want to see is Tolvan defending himself, since I don't think he's said shit since people have started lynching him, which is pretty fuckin' weird.

Untrue. He said "I was half-asleep then" or something, which is about all he could have said.

 

[Tirin]

Oh. I still don't give a fuck, though, the lynch was rando at the time and is being retroactively supported by how Andy both defended him and is being a scumbag.

 

[Colonel Thunder]

My pushing the lynch has no bearing on whether or not the person is scum, and you don't get to decide what we do, because you ain't the mod. A quick lynch is unlikely to hit scum, a slow lynch is unlikely to hit scum; a lynch on Tolvan, while unlikely to hit scum, can provide valuable information to the town whether he's scum or not.

I'm having some difficulty digesting the entire three pages of posts at once, so a lot is still jumbled in my mind right now, but so far this is the best argument I've heard understood regarding lynching Tolvan.

Perhaps if we analyze history, we'll be able to deduce who the mafia is.

 

[AndyM03]

The counter arguments to that, summed up TC, would be that Lynching Tolvan provides shit all at this point unless you believe Easy and I would be dumb enough to defend Tolvan this fervently if we actually had a connection to him. (Ro and Stealthy supporting our thought process in this) Easy reckons Tolvan is Town, and so do I. Tirin thinks we're fuckwits for going on that hunch but we are. We've had so little to go on since Tolvan hasn't been able to post, he might say something that changes my mind, you never know, but at this point even though it's likely we'll lynch a Townie anyway, to do so when you reckon they probably are a townie would be against the Towns interests, though I understand that Tirin (And co.) simply doesn't believe us and Tolvan is a good as lynch as any to them, which is fair enough. But I don't like how Tirin's made defending Tolvan to be a scummy move. If we reckon he's Town, lynching anyone else is the only pro Town move there is for something with that belief. Not that I think Tirin is particularly scummy, I think It's as good as any other lynch, despite other posters saying Nah.

 

[AndyM03]

Someone with that belief* I hate not being able to edit haha but I totally get why we can't.

 

[Tolvan]

Alright. My defense? I was fucking around because I generally don't really know what to do on early Day 1.

 

[Colonel Thunder]

Evidently, you should just not do whatever you're inclined to do, and you should be golden, Tolvan.

 

[Tirin]

Defending Tolvan isn't a scummy move inherently - but if he's scum, there's a good chance that one or more of his buddies were defending him, and would be quick to do so. What is scummy, however, is going from defense to offense and attempting to lynch me when you're damn well sure I'm not scum, and admit you're uncertain in it to boot. I'm now suspicious of Tolvan - but that's because you offered him support, and you're bein' fuckin' scummy. For now, I'm a lot more convinced that you need a lynch than he does.

Unlynch Tolvan
Lynch Andyman

Also protip, I'll probably always be aggro in Mafia unless I'm too busy to be really active (which is likely, though not in the next ~week or so; I'll let you know if I won't be available for a bit). I go for the fucking throat.

 

[Steal Thy Kill]

Whitetiger's always like this. I'm pretty confident he's Town.

Alright, I'll trust.

And Tirin, I'm really not following your logic here. I already don't think Tolvan can actually tell us that much, because if he flips scum, then there's no way to distinguish between his defenders being scummy and just thinking this bandwagon is BS. And if he flips town, it means you and Tiger are being retardedly aggro which idk if we can really distinguish aggression because scum or aggression because that's who you are. Also, why are Andy and Easy more scummy than myself or Ro, or hell even Tolvan at this point? And why is Andy now even scummier than usual? He's disagreeing with you, but you're not pointing out why he's scummy for doing that.

I'm not gonna go so far as to say that I'm confident that Tolvan's town, but I don't see why we should lynch him, or how what you've said and have gone on to say still point to that.

If anything, it sounds like you actually want to lynch Andy.

Well then. That happened.

 

[Tirin]

Fuckin' ninja'd.

 

[AndyM03]

I saw that coming, and my defense is every post I've made this day. In a game with 15 people, I've needlessly stuck my neck out for someone I reckon is town, I've needlessly made a name for myself and I've tried to keep discussion moving forward. I know since I've been against you, and if you are town, you're going to perceive my going against you as a possible scum trying to lead the town awry, and i'm in the same situation. I'm considering unlynching you simply because you're participating and I see that as beneficial to the town, and as you said I put out in the open I'm very willing to be swayed, It's a day 1 lynch after all, i'm not trying to say much with it.

 

[Firedemon]

Woah, lot of stuff. I'll make a post later tonight, I'm too busy to even read all of this at the moment.

 

[AndyM03]

The counter arguments to that, summed up TC, would be that Lynching Tolvan provides shit all at this point unless you believe Easy and I would be dumb enough to defend Tolvan this fervently if we actually had a connection to him. (Ro and Stealthy supporting our thought process in this) Easy reckons Tolvan is Town, and so do I. Tirin thinks we're fuckwits for going on that hunch but we are. We've had so little to go on since Tolvan hasn't been able to post, he might say something that changes my mind, you never know, but at this point even though it's likely we'll lynch a Townie anyway, to do so when you reckon they probably are a townie would be against the Towns interests, though I understand that Tirin (And co.) simply doesn't believe us and Tolvan is a good as lynch as any to them, which is fair enough. But I don't like how Tirin's made defending Tolvan to be a scummy move. If we reckon he's Town, lynching anyone else is the only pro Town move there is for something with that belief. Not that I think Tirin is particularly scummy, I think It's as good as any other lynch, despite other posters saying Nah.

I've bolded parts that sum up the Tolvan vs Anyone else argument, that being said someone else could probably do a better, unbiased job.