TV: Game of Thrones
- Thread starter 13thforsworn
- Start date
First ship out of Braavos may have just been going to Maidenpool or Duskendale. Or maybe Arya just actively decided to gun for Walder Frey because her entire goal at this point is to murder all the fucks on her list, and he was the most readily available one.
A race against nature, that bastard was old.
I suspect Arya is more consumed by a need for revenge than a desire to reunite with her family. After all, what does she do every night before she goes to sleep? She doesn't recite her list of people she misses and wants very much to see, she recites her hit list. It makes more sense for her to intentionally postpone a Stark reunion in favor of revenge, because revenge is clearly more important to her.
Besides, exacting her revenge will protect her family. Who would have been the next big problem for Sansa and Jon? Probably House Frey. But now she's killed Walder Frey, so I'm going to bet my money on his absurd number of children and grandchildren fighting over their inheritance next.
Besides, exacting her revenge will protect her family. Who would have been the next big problem for Sansa and Jon? Probably House Frey. But now she's killed Walder Frey, so I'm going to bet my money on his absurd number of children and grandchildren fighting over their inheritance next.
I'm just saying, White harbor is closer, and as far as she knows inside Winterfell resides both her sister and the man who betrayed and murdered her brother, I would expect that would be her first thought, but I guess they had to find a way to keep some of the Starks apart.
But it depends on when she finds out about these things, she may have been already on her way to the Twins when she heard about about what was happening in Winterfell. Plus it's not like Jon was doing a great job sending Ravens out as we saw when Sam got to Oldtown, so that might also explain why Arya might not have known. Also Walder Frey wasn't on her list (at least she never says he is) obviously she has reason to kill him, but it's not like she went to kill some person she'd been harping about getting revenge on.
According to the wiki:
The people on Arya's death list currently are:
The people on Arya's death list currently are:
- Cersei, for her role in the execution of her father.
- The Mountain, for leading the brutal torture at Harrenhal. Revived by Qyburn from his presumed death.
- Walder Frey (deceased), for his role in killing her brother and mother. Killed by Arya in disguise.
- Polliver (deceased), for killing her friend Lommy, stealing her sword Needle, and taking part in the brutal torture at Harrenhal. Killed by Arya while repeating the same words Polliver said to Lommy when he killed him.
- Joffrey (deceased), for ordering the execution of her father. Killed during his own wedding.
- Rorge (deceased), for threatening to rape her. Killed by Arya just after adding him to the list.
- The Hound, for killing her friend Mycah and being a Lannister lackey. Severely injured by Brienne of Tarth and left to die by Arya. He actually survived, though she doesn't know it, and she later admitted that by that point part of her didn't want him to die.
- Tywin Lannister (deceased), for leading the Lannisters against her brother. Killed by his own son Tyrion Lannister.
- Meryn Trant (deceased), for killing her dancing master Syrio Forel and aiding Cersei in her coup. Killed by Arya in a Braavosi brothel while disguised as an underaged prostitute.
It's pretty unlikely for news of the wedding to have reached her before departure - it's not like there was some kind of medieval foreign weddings gossip channel she could have flipped on or anything. Remember how long it took Westeros to hear about the first time Danaerys burned a city? Though, the main thing is that you're way overestimating the ease of finding a ship to book passage on going from Braavos to White Harbor, especially this far into winter.
There was some kind of medieval foreign gossip theatre group, though, and we saw this group perform events well after the red wedding.
Yes, and that troupe ensured that, months after the ruler of an entire continent died, the news of this event reached the ears of even the generally unaffected peasantry of of Braavos. Which evidently was still somewhat fresh material even then. By comparison, another one pair of said continent's many noble houses having a marriage is far less interesting and significant.
I think Daario and Khal Drogo would get shit on. I don't think the Dothraki have ever been portrayed as doing well against the plate armor used by Westerosi knights, and Drogo straight has no chance of beating Gregor unless he knows how to exploit the weaknesses of said armor. Daario has the same problem with his shitty Dothraki weapon and lack of documented wrecking armored people, though I may be forgetting something.
Jaqen, I think, would be capable owing to precision and training, though he also doesn't have shit for combat feats.
Young Robert Baratheon could probably do it; he took down Rhaegar, who was allegedly pretty badass. The Hound could totally do it, Oberyn was obviously capable of doing it, Syrio might be able to do it, Jaime could certainly have done it, Barristan Selmy could probably do it even in his old age, and Arthur Dayne's one scene (coupled with Barristan Selmy's endorsement of him) makes me suspect that he would outright embarrass Gregor.
I'd also give non-zero odds to both Jon Snow and Bronn, especially given Jon's showing in S6E09; that said, Ramsay is hardly as good a fighter as Gregor. I wish I could say the same for Stannis, but he's got so little to go on for 1v1s that I don't even know if he's much above average; he was always characterized as more of an excellent commander type a la Tywin.
Jaqen, I think, would be capable owing to precision and training, though he also doesn't have shit for combat feats.
Young Robert Baratheon could probably do it; he took down Rhaegar, who was allegedly pretty badass. The Hound could totally do it, Oberyn was obviously capable of doing it, Syrio might be able to do it, Jaime could certainly have done it, Barristan Selmy could probably do it even in his old age, and Arthur Dayne's one scene (coupled with Barristan Selmy's endorsement of him) makes me suspect that he would outright embarrass Gregor.
I'd also give non-zero odds to both Jon Snow and Bronn, especially given Jon's showing in S6E09; that said, Ramsay is hardly as good a fighter as Gregor. I wish I could say the same for Stannis, but he's got so little to go on for 1v1s that I don't even know if he's much above average; he was always characterized as more of an excellent commander type a la Tywin.
For what it's worth, Bronn figured (in the books, at least, as I recall,) that he probably could beat the Mountain. He didn't think Tyrion was worth the risk, though, especially since Cersei'd offered land and title to him in exchange for not fighting. John Snow, however, couldn't beat an old man who wasn't even left-handed, and wouldn't stand a chance.
Daario's (at least allegedly) beaten champions of all kinds, including heavily-armored ones. Of Jaime, it's thought by Brienne, after narrowly avoiding getting killed by him in their earlier confrontation, that "no knight in the Seven Kingdoms could have stood against him at his full strength, with no chains to hamper him." (This would obviously not hold true for former knights, like Ser Arthur Dayne, mind, and wouldn't necessarily hold true for The Hound, either.)
Ser Garlan Tyrell is a significantly better swordsman than his brother Loras, and may have a pretty good chance at it. But I'd give poor odds to Syrio, who seems to not be very well-versed at killing anyone who's wearing full plate.
Daario's (at least allegedly) beaten champions of all kinds, including heavily-armored ones. Of Jaime, it's thought by Brienne, after narrowly avoiding getting killed by him in their earlier confrontation, that "no knight in the Seven Kingdoms could have stood against him at his full strength, with no chains to hamper him." (This would obviously not hold true for former knights, like Ser Arthur Dayne, mind, and wouldn't necessarily hold true for The Hound, either.)
Ser Garlan Tyrell is a significantly better swordsman than his brother Loras, and may have a pretty good chance at it. But I'd give poor odds to Syrio, who seems to not be very well-versed at killing anyone who's wearing full plate.
Main issue with the video is that, while it identifies speed as a route to take down the Mountain, it forgets that you still need to deal with range. The Mountain's a big target, but he swings around a giant greatsword. Makes it harder to reach him with your own pointy end if you're fighting from farther away. This is why Oberyn's choice of a spear was so critical: It allowed him to combat Gregor's range and get under his guard. Doing that with a standard longsword is much harder; if Oberyn went with a sword he'd probably lose. Weapon choice is a hit against Drogo. It's one against the standard sword users as well.
That said, Arthur Dayne, Jaime, and Barry the Bold are all without saying. They are the three greatest swordsman in recent Westerosi history. Oberyn is obvious. Would also put good odds on Garlan Tyrell. Loras would stand a good chance, but I think it tilts towards the Mountain. Bobby B and Brienne would give a good match (she's a bit better in show than books, but she's still excellent), and I'm surprised the video left her out.
But Bronn probably isn't good enough. Bronn's smart, and it's possible, sure, but just because he says it's possible doesn't mean it's likely to actually happen. Long odds on Daario as well. Faceless Men don't count. Syrio would probably lose, but would at least get some decent hits in.
And of course, there's the fucking Hound. CLEGANEBOWL GET HYPE
That said, Arthur Dayne, Jaime, and Barry the Bold are all without saying. They are the three greatest swordsman in recent Westerosi history. Oberyn is obvious. Would also put good odds on Garlan Tyrell. Loras would stand a good chance, but I think it tilts towards the Mountain. Bobby B and Brienne would give a good match (she's a bit better in show than books, but she's still excellent), and I'm surprised the video left her out.
But Bronn probably isn't good enough. Bronn's smart, and it's possible, sure, but just because he says it's possible doesn't mean it's likely to actually happen. Long odds on Daario as well. Faceless Men don't count. Syrio would probably lose, but would at least get some decent hits in.
And of course, there's the fucking Hound. CLEGANEBOWL GET HYPE
Getting rekt when you were a scrublord is no way to judge whether you can beat a badass as a badass of your own. Measure is unceasing.
Come, now, you're comparing rando gladiators and the fuckboy of Meereen to a dude who's almost assuredly in the top three for swoleness and general violence on his planet (discounting giants and shit, that is).
So for me I think Daario and Drogo would definitely lose, besides their weapons of choice being incredibly bad for a one on one fight with the Mountain their pride most certainly would get in the way. They lack the mental fortitude since Daario is a sellsword and short of fighting him on the bequest of Daeny I can't see him taking any fight seriously enough until it was too late, believing his skills alone would be enough to down Gregor. Drogo although seeming like a competent fighter is still a Dothraki who are far more skilled while mounted than in any one on one conflict.
As for maybe's I'd say the Hound and Syrio, while I think the Hound is certainly capable of doing it I think psychologically he's at a disadvantage. The searing hate he has towards his brother would certainly come into play and he would need to overcome that to have a chance. Syrio I just don't have a great grasp on his abilities, while he seems plenty skilled considering he could (temporarily) fend off a bunch of gold cloaks with a wooden sword (mind you they were shit tier gold cloaks) that doesn't do much to convince me that he has what it takes to take on The Mountain. Heck the Hound makes fun of him when Arya says he was killed by Meryn Trant.
Everyone else I think could easily handle him, I'd even throw Ned in his prime as a Maybe since we see him hold his own against Jaime before being stabbed in the leg, plus he looked ok against Arthur Dayne for a bit which I think is more than most people could do.
I wouldn't put Jon in there unless he's allowed a Dire Wolf assist and Bronn is just talking a big game.
Jaqen would be interesting since what he could do in a one on one battle in front of people is unknown, he's an assassin which doesn't always make for a good fighter.
As for maybe's I'd say the Hound and Syrio, while I think the Hound is certainly capable of doing it I think psychologically he's at a disadvantage. The searing hate he has towards his brother would certainly come into play and he would need to overcome that to have a chance. Syrio I just don't have a great grasp on his abilities, while he seems plenty skilled considering he could (temporarily) fend off a bunch of gold cloaks with a wooden sword (mind you they were shit tier gold cloaks) that doesn't do much to convince me that he has what it takes to take on The Mountain. Heck the Hound makes fun of him when Arya says he was killed by Meryn Trant.
Everyone else I think could easily handle him, I'd even throw Ned in his prime as a Maybe since we see him hold his own against Jaime before being stabbed in the leg, plus he looked ok against Arthur Dayne for a bit which I think is more than most people could do.
I wouldn't put Jon in there unless he's allowed a Dire Wolf assist and Bronn is just talking a big game.
Jaqen would be interesting since what he could do in a one on one battle in front of people is unknown, he's an assassin which doesn't always make for a good fighter.
I wouldn't say it's terribly long odds for Bronn. It'd be one thing if he'd just suggested that he could potentially beat the Mountain while in a fit of drunken boasting, but that wasn't the case. He gave a thorough analysis of the Mountain's strengths and (albeit much more briefly, by necessity,) weaknesses, described his potential approach, and frankly explained what kind of risk he'd be taking. Since he only did this on the off-chance that Tyrion would offer him something more valuable than what Cersei offered him in counter, it's if anything more likely that he understated his odds than overstated them, as part of the sales pitch. Tyrion's own observation had earlier judged his swordsmanship to be nearly on-par with Jaime's, and his affinity for ruthlessness and practicality is obviously well beyond. Even Cersei, arrogant as she is, recognized that it was worth trading away a lordship and castle, just to avoid the risk of him going up against Ser Gregor.
As nobles and veterans go, and despite wielding a near-priceless and superior sword, Jon's never been a particularly exceptional fighter.
The fuckboy of Meereen was the champion of a thriving metropolis built around constant gladiatorial death-matches. It's not nothing.
If you're just basing that on the show, then that's a fair impression to take away. Book lore gives both of them much more the "kill first, show off later" sort of vibe. (In combat, anyway.)
Ned was never really noted for his swordsmanship, either, apart from some lines that get thrown into the show. His fights against Jaime and Dayne in the show could be written down as just drama, but the better explanation is that in both cases, his opponents had good reason to be trying to avoid killing him.
Hard to say how much of Rhaegar's prowess was really just due to posthumous inflation. When asked, Barristan Selmy is uncomfortable with his description as "a warrior without peer" - if only because, as he explains, luck and circumstance weigh into the outcomes of duels as well as the respective strength and skill of the fighters.
Dude had won a bunch of fights and tournaments, though.
Word of Author rates Ned as an average fighter (for a lord). Rhaegar is 100% viewed by rose-tinted glasses by most of the population (though Bobby B was a total badass). There is a very large skill difference between Jon Snow and Jon Show.