2016 Election Clusterfun

Requiem

Well-Known Member
Member
I think she's realizing what a shit show she's chosen to be. Played the game like she was supposed to, got beaten once, now she's threatened by someone who didn't play the game. She's probably drinking every damn chance she gets from the guilt of it if you ask me.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
...Bernie literally admitted in an interview that he has no idea how he'll break up the banks. He also did the same about some foreign policy things, but the bank bit is the most ridiculous and significant one. That's his marquee issue, and he has no plan. Like, that is fucking unacceptable. Even Trump has a plan for how he's gonna make Mexico pay for the wall. It's not a very good one (basically all-out trade war), but he has one. One of my biggest issues with Bernie is that I think he's all rhetoric with poor substance. Turns out he's all rhetoric with no substance.

He's also gone hard negative, when earlier he touted that he always ran positive campaigns (which is admirable). Literally just came out swinging by calling Hillary "not qualified" for president. A direct attack rather than the more passive aggressive or insinuations he's been doing up until now, and an attack that will fall flat. And she set up this storyline with a comment on his "tone" a week or so earlier. It's also a flip flop for him, considering how he praised her earlier in the race before he started losing.

He's also generally been neglecting down-ticket Democrats, rather deliberately. It's a purity thing. And there's not a "rising tide lifts all ships" cure, because a fifth of his supporters in Wisconsin did not vote in the down-ticket Supreme Court race that was also on the ballot. Young voters vote for people, not parties.

And there's a debate next week where I'm sure Wolf Blitzer will be bringing up these issues (certainly the first two). And Bernie can put his foot in his mouth real good (seriously, what idiot comes out as pro-Castro in a Florida debate). And he can't call bias towards Hillary because it's CNN and Wolf Blitzer.

If I was Hillary Clinton, I'd be happy af right now. From her perspective, we're at the endgame.
 

Easy

Right Honorable Justice
Member
...Bernie literally admitted in an interview that he has no idea how he'll break up the banks.
That's literally untrue.
Literally just came out swinging by calling Hillary "not qualified" for president. A direct attack rather than the more passive aggressive or insinuations he's been doing up until now, and an attack that will fall flat.
And that's inaccurate, because making a response to somebody with a less-praiseworthy record questioning his own qualifications isn't really "coming out swinging" or "attacking," as such.
(seriously, what idiot comes out as pro-Castro in a Florida debate)
Man gave an honest and objective assessment of Castro's effect on Cuba, didn't exactly just go pro-Castro. Anyway, the answer is "the same kind of idiot who doesn't start a super PAC to finance his 2016 campaign." He's been running on a message of valuing integrity over political advantage all along, so that really shouldn't have been all that surprising.
 
Last edited:

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Okay so looking back I miscommunicated my shit real bad. Particularly the part on why Bernie's "not qualified" remark was a terrible move on his part. The gist of that bit is that "qualified" was a terrible terrible word to use, and undermined the entire point he was trying to make. I get that he was saying that this year we need an outsider instead of an insider to reform the system, but saying that anybody else is unqualified to be president gives the wrong impression and makes people think Bernie has gone too far, and endorsing the unpopular #BernieOrBust movement (remember, 80% of Bernie voters like Hillary, and vice versa). The easy rebuttal is "Hillary is unqualified for president? By the same logic, so is Obama. So was Bill. So was FDR. So was Teddy fucking Roosevelt". There's valuing integrity over political expediency and then there's shooting yourself in the foot. And his poor phrasing shot him in the foot. I don't know if that was a bad off the cuff thing where he was trying to turn "qualified" back around on her, or if it was pre-planned, which would be horribly embarrassing. I think it was the first directly negative attack (or at least the first attack that comes across as directly negative) that Bernie's made this campaign. And it got a lot of attention, meaning it looks like he's finally coming out swinging. It's a problem. Of course, the news cycle is now dead because Bill fucked up with BLM, and both candidates have recanted their attacks after Obama told them off, but still. Was a bad move for Bernie, and he was the one having the tough time, not Hillary.


Aaaaaanyway. Let's talk about Wyoming. I realize that I said "Bernie wins, nobody cares", but something weird actually happened. He won... but by about same amount he did in Wisconsin. And that's kinda odd. His original target was 9 delegates, and his revised target was 11, and he fell short 2-4 delegates. An 11 delegate win would've asked for like a 57 pt margin, which sounds like a bit much but not unthinkable given that's how well he did in Idaho. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about Wyoming, but this is pretty odd and not good for Bernie. Not just a "falling behind his targets" thing. Upside of rural states is that they're worth so little it's easy to make up the shortfall in bigger states. Caucuses are something of amplifiers. They give advantage to candidates with good ground organization/get out the vote efforts, and candidates with strong grassroots enthusiasm. Bernie crushes in the latter, and while Hillary's winning with the former, it hasn't helped her a lot in the past. Bernie should've taken it rather handily and with all the strength he typically takes his caucuses. But he didn't.

Good sources of speculation on why this happened are hard to find because nobody cares about Wyoming. It's either something fluke-y about Wyoming... or the closed nature really fucking Bernie. Probably a mix of both, though if you're a Bernie supporter you want the latter to be as minimized as possible because of all the big closed primaries coming up. A few other factors I can think of are a particularly robust GOTV effort by Hillary, Wyoming having odd caucus rules, an atypically unenthusiastic Sanders base, overall low turnout because even Wyoming doesn't care about Wyoming, and a very sparse population inhibiting caucus efforts. idk what it is, but it's definitely something odd. Bernie's now hoping that Massachusetts and Wyoming were flukes going forward.

Also the 7-7 delegate split was rather bullshit, should've been 8-6, but because of how caucuses are dumb and there's the state convention and bullshit, there's potential for Bernie to make that up. Particularly if something dumb happens like in Nevada, or if there are shenanigans like we've seen in several cases on the GOP side. The real thing is the vote margin.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Polls close in NY at 9 EST. I'll try to get a full rundown post down before then.

The tl;dr of it is that on the GOP side, the main question isn't if Trump will win, but by how much. He's aiming for 50% thresholds both state-wide and in each district, which is pretty realistic. It's straightforward, but because of the district-by-district allocation it'll still take up the bulk of the live coverage if I wind up doing that again. Meanwhile, on the Dem side Bernie's target is a small win (like 4 pts), however this is generally considered "not going to happen". Instead, we're probably gonna be looking at the extent of Hillary's win. Bernie supporters should be hoping for win of like a 5 or below. Hillary supporters are wanting at least a 15 pt win. The strict closed primary setting (the deadline for swapping parties was back in fucking October) is going to be a pretty real factor here for both sides.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
...whoops.

Okay let's go quick. For the Republicans, the delegates are split up similarly to Wisconsin in that you get 14 based on statewide and 3 for each district. There are a lot of districts, most of which are in NYC. The difference is that in Wisconsin each category was winner-take-all. In New York, it's proportional for statewide, and for the districts it goes 2-1 between the first and second place winners, but both statewide and district-wise there's a 50% winner-take-all threshold. This is relevant because New York just loves Trump and hitting that threshold statewide and in many districts is a legit possibility. And so far is happening. This will be a good night for him.

Trump's target is 91/95.

Democrats are proportional as always. Expect Hillary to run the margins up where the minorities and rich people are. Long Island, NYC, you get it. Bernie will do better in Staten Island because lolStatenIsland. New York can be split into two states. NYC and the surrounding areas, and the rest of it. Bernie is better in the latter, Hillary in the former. The problem for Bernie is that waaaaaay more people live in the first one, but that's okay because this is a proportional system. If he can control the margin down south, and run it up throughout upstate, then he can eek out a respectable loss.

Bernie's target is a 128 delegates, or a 4 pt win.

At present it looks like the not Trump crowd is definitely not strategically hopping to Cruz in New York. This is not surprising because people in New York hate Ted Cruz. It's what happens when you spend the entire campaign up until this point appealing to the rural crowd by shitting on the metropolitans.

Fun Fact: New York's 15th District (in the Bronx) will likely be decided by less than 300 voters. Not that it'll be a close race with only a 300 vote difference, I mean that's the total number of Republican voters in the primary.

At present, we have 37% reporting. Trump has been declared the winner and is, at present, winning 63/22/14 (Kasich is second). Hillary is currently leading 60/40, but has not yet been declared the winner.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
(Okay, NBC and ABC have declared Hillary the winner, I'll try and get a district by district thing for the Republicans soon, then we'll check back in with the Democrats)
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Okay so quick rundown of the districts. The first 15 of the 27 districts are in NYC and Long Island, with 16 being Westchester and Yonkers. 17 has Tarrytown, and 18 has Orange County. 20 is Albany. 25 is Rochester. 26 is Buffalo. 24 includes Syracuse. Rest are gonna be pretty rural.
 

Firedemon

Well-Known Member
Member
Looks like the general consensus on the Democratic delegate math is 104-85 right now. We'll have to wait a while longer on the Republican math since it's so... weird... and more dependent upon individual districts. I think it's safe to say Drumpf will get a depressingly large amount of these delegates.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Keep in mind, New York gives 250 delegates. The 104/85 is not final. Worth saying that the Democrats proportional system is like Wisconsin so it's proportional per district and statewide, so don't be surprised if the delegate totals are a bit off from the primary vote. Overall the splits have tended to hew towards the statewide numbers, though on a macro-scale (nationwide) the gap is a few points off.

Edit: Okay so I got Democrat numbers at 47%, and if those were the final numbers, Hillary would win 137-104 (with 6 delegates up in the air because Nassau County refuses to report)

So the district-numbers I have so far are based on the vote when 32% were reporting. We're well past that, but oh well. It's clear enough to call that Trump has clinched the winner-take-all threshold statewide, and has either clinched it or will clinch it the 1st-15th districts with the exceptions of the 10th, 12th, and 13th. The 2nd-4th haven't reported in enough yet but he's gonna do it anyway because extrapolation. So that alone is 47.

The 10th and 12th have him bleeding votes to Kasich, while his margin in the 13th is just real close to the 50% marker. These districts all include parts of Manhattan FYI, which is rich Kasich territory. Kasich is going to be pulling a delegate out of any of these districts that Trump doesn't break 50 in, and has a chance to beat him in the 12th.

All the other districts have not reported in enough yet to talk about, but Trump's the clear winner in all of them. It's just about whether or not he clears that 50%.
 
Last edited:

Easy

Right Honorable Justice
Member
Whelp. I'm super unhappy about this.
 

13thforsworn

Well-Known Member
Member
So I was told that some Democratic voter who had registered in time for the closed primary in NY were disqualified because they had failed to vote in the last two elections. Can anyone confirm/deny that this is in fact a thing that actually happened?
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Ugh. The problem with New York is that NYC is so fucking populated that all the districts there are too tiny and compacted for me to do much use with a county-based results map. Look at these districts. I have to wait for outside sources to spit something out instead of being to go based on the county results. I just got a slate at 55% reporting, so I'll pick through that in a bit.

Overall though we have 70% reporting. GOP is at 59/25/15, while the Dems have narrowed a bit to 58/42. Also, this is like the first time that Trump has really outperformed his polls. Closed primary may have prevented his kids from voting for him, but plenty of people still are. May have hurt Bernie more, we'll see when we get final exit polls.

We're still missing a whole lot of votes in the NYC area. Nassau County (Long Island, just east of the city) still hasn't made a damn peep. There are 3700 precincts left to report. Nassau County holds 1200 of them. We're also missing 200 from Suffolk (Long Island further east. includes the Hamptons), another 200 from Brooklyn and the Bronx, and 150 from Queens and Manhattan.

And yeah, this looks to be a rough night for Bernie supporters and the Not-Trump crowd.

re: 13th. It's not impossible that it's one of New York's rules. It's also not impossible that they got fucked by a misinformed election official. I know that some primaries stipulate a prior record of voting for the party, so perhaps that's what happened. That does seem a bit redundant to me given the closed nature though, I'll try to look into it.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Oh look, Nassau County showed up with half its precincts. As I said before, Trump won 70/20/10.

Right now he's looking good on the 50% threshold in every district except the 10th, 12th, 13th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, and 25th. So that's 68. He's still gonna win all those districts except maybe the 12th (he has a 1pt lead over Kasich and 15% left to report). So there's another 16, plus a minimum 1 from the 12th. So, at minimum, Trump gets 85.

The 13th is upper Manhattan with a bit of Bronx. Trump will win, but he's only a half point above threshold and there's still 12% reporting. Could go either way on the third delegate.

20th is Albany. He's currently a bit below the threshold and I don't think he'll make it. 40% of precincts haven't reported in that dump, but in the NYT more updated map, that area's mostly done and Trump's in the high forties in the two counties that make up the bulk of the district. So there's 1 for Kasich.

21st is real far upstate. That northern head-bit. He's got 52 with 40% left to report in the district-dump. The live results show that he's doing pretty good here. Saratoga County (split between the 20th and 21st) still has a fair bit to report and he's not doing as well there, but he's got like 48% there and I don't think it'll be enough to drag him down in the 21st. I'll give it to Trump.

22nd is.. well idk any good landmarks for it but it's inbetween Syracuse and Albany. Trump's up by 2 on the old numbers with 25% to report, but on the live dump they're almost finished and.. I'm not sure but it's not impossible. Tossup.

23rd Trump is also up by 1 with 40 to go. 23rd is like the majority of the PA border. But based on what I'm seeing on the live results, this is a Trump win. Tompkins is the only county where he's significantly down (37%, only a 2pt lead over Kasich. I think this is the one with Ithaca so not surprising), but he's doing pretty comfortably everywhere else so this is a clear one.

24th has Syracuse and a bit else. District results had him 2.5 below with 30 to go, and the live results confirm that he's not getting it. Onondaga County (Syracuse) is the biggest share of votes in the district and Trump's down by 5 there. There isn't anywhere else to pick up the slack. Plus 1 to Kasich.

25th is Rochester. Trump was up by 1 with almost everything reported (which I should've noticed), so yeah he clinches it here.

So final tally of all that is Trump: 88, Kasich: 4, Tossup: 3, Cruz: 0
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Fun Fact: Bernie is really good at winning counties named Clinton. I find this hilarious and kinda wanna see him stay until the end just so he can complete the sweep and win Clinton County in Montana.
 

Steal Thy Kill

Well-Known Member
Member
Alright. Let's clean up those last 3 delegates. Kasich won the 12th by half a point, so one goes to him. Meanwhile Trump held on with the 22nd, so one for him. Then the 13th I still can't call yet. He's literally at 50 and there's still 5 to go. So 89-5 with 1 in the balance... overall this is slightly below Trump's path to 1237 target, but beating all projections. If Trump gets close enough without meeting 1237, then he can try to sway uncommitted delegates (we will talk more about this bullshit with Pennsylvania) or something something "will of the voters", but there's no clear marker of where "close enough" is. This is overall a great night for Trump though, and he should be pleased with the results.

Also not a bad night for Kasich. I'm pretty sure his goal is to just not be a footnote in the book of this race, and by New York voters refusing to strategically move behind Cruz, that means he still has a shot at relevancy. Bad night for Cruz for the same reason.

For the Democrat side, it looks like it narrowed to a 15pt win for Hillary, and the 538 polls-plus forecast was pretty spot on there. Good night for Hillary here. We're looking at a 30ish delegate win here for her, and that's actually really outperforming her original targets. We really don't talk about her targets because... well Bernie's are more important, but it's worth saying that the original 538 target only needed her to take 122/247. She's gonna beat that by about 20. Not huge on the voting percent front, but significant on the raw delegate count. Unfortunately for Bernie, Massachusetts was not a fluke. This is going to be hard.
 
Top Bottom