History is cool. Let's talk about it. (Also Oklahoma Votes to Ban AP US History Course)

Requiem

Requiem

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RECONmaster said:
loosing
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Losing*. Sorry, I don't normally correct spelling mistakes, but that one just irks me so hard in my jimmy zone.

Also, I skimmed the article enough to get the gist of it. They don't like people putting America on blast and telling kids all of the fucked up stuff we did in the past. They want it to be nothing but Jesus, Red, White, and Blue, and no mention of the systemic destruction of the native American population as well as the internment of Asian American citizens who literally did nothing during WWII except be Asian American. They also don't want to mention anything else.

Less and less do I believe there's some sort of hidden agenda to intentionally make American citizens stupid. I think we're just going the way of Idiocracy and it's just happening. Ignore the bad part of our history, we don't like it, ew, keep it away. Don't make me think about how to become a country and remain a country, we did some sadistic shit, like every country does. Don't tell the kids the truth, they might gain knowledge.
 
13thforsworn

13thforsworn

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Earlier this month, the Georgia state Senate introduced a resolution that rejects a new version of the AP U.S. History course for presenting a "radically revisionist view of American history" and minimizing "discussion of America’s Founding Fathers, the principles of the Declaration of Independence, [and] the religious influences on our nation’s history."
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't many of the Founding Fathers deists or non-religious?

...suggests that Manifest Destiny was "built on a belief in white racial superiority and a sense of American cultural superiority," rather than "the belief that America had a mission to spread democracy and new technology across the continent," as he put it.
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In my admittedly Canadian elementary and high school, we were tough that Manifest Destiny was the perception that Americans were entitled by destiny to conquer all of North America, which is why the Canadian government acted quickly to populate the west, in order to prevent American annexation...
Also, the white power and cultural superiority stuff in regards to the Natives.
 
Walrus

Walrus

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I would have to personally read through these changes to the course curriculum see if these oklahoma people actually have a somewhat valid argument on the changes to the curriculum being too extreme, but my gut says that AP tests are pretty darn good and this is awful. These guys bring up the issue of a national curriculum, but I don't consider the national curriculum AP tests bring problematic. The monopoly aspect? Yeah, okay, that should maybe be dealt with in some way but it's hard to think of a good way to do so without blowing up AP, which I think is going way too far.

I can certainly understand being upset that American exceptionalism isn't even mentioned, though. Even if the legitimacy of exceptionalism is heavily criticized, that the US used the propaganda idea of spreading freedom around the world as a motivation for their Cold War actions is pretty significant. Banning the courses because of that, though? Seems a bit extreme considering that teachers can always teach beyond what the AP course outline covers (Exceptionalism left out? A good teacher will still talk about it).
 
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Danny

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It's almost the total opposite here in England. We get taught about the brutal history of our past, from the medieval times, to WW I/II, the empire, many of the wars with the french..

There is lots we are taught about our own brutality and the dangers of extremism - I guess because we are more jaded then you guys in the states.

Although we get taught nothing about american history, except for their involvement in the world wars. I had no idea about the american civil war etc until after school.

So yeah. You guys be crazy. I guess it's partly because american history is so short compared to most other countries, people haven't learnt yet how dangerous it can be to always think you're in the right.
 
Walrus

Walrus

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Seeing that elementary school curriculum tends to glorify the US, I am perfectly fine with high school curriculum making the US look scummy, with teachers saying "you learned this great stuff about Christopher Columbus in elementary school, but really there were tons of problems with that because X."
 
Tirin

Tirin

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America isn't exceptional. It's a stable and wealthy country, but it has a lot of crime and glaring social issues. And, like any other country, it did some pretty terrible things to make itself rich and powerful (and still does). Any history course that focuses on telling students how just and pure their home country is is a hell of a lot more revisionist than the AP course appears to be.
 
Tolvan

Tolvan

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Tirin said:
America isn't exceptional. It's a stable and wealthy country, but it has a lot of crime and glaring social issues. And, like any other country, it did some pretty terrible things to make itself rich and powerful (and still does). Any history course that focuses on telling students how just and pure their home country is is a hell of a lot more revisionist than the AP course appears to be.
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Agreed, which is why this annoys me so much.
 
The Hound

The Hound

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It needs to be a balance, kids need to know about the atrocities but it's also important that they develop a reasonable amount of nationalism. I would hope by the time they reached AP history kids would be ready to handle the truth that their country isn't perfect.
 
Lumpy

Lumpy

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There didn't seem to be anything particularly bad in the framework. It's just historical facts, often times stating multiple perspectives and results of each event. This just seems like dumb-ass conservatives extending the rightful debate over Common Core to where it doesn't belong.

And I wouldn't say American colleges can do with less nationalism. With how laden most are with white guilt they might as well be Swedish embassies.
 
Tirin

Tirin

God-Emperor of Tealkind
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Lumpy said:
And I wouldn't say American colleges can do with less nationalism. With how laden most are with white guilt they might as well be Swedish embassies.
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But... the white man is the source of all suffering in this world. How can't we blame problems on him?

Also, AP courses are in high schools, not universities.
 
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