Ended Shadow's League of Legends Mafia: Season II - GAME OVER (Anti-Town Victory)

[Jeroth]

Crippling Strike is pretty useless when you can ensure that you ignore any protecting abilities.

Surprisingly, I never used Desolate or whatever my ignore protection ability was.

For the game that we played, it was much better to just Crippling Strike to: (1) Mess with any investigator looking into that person. (2) It applies my passive.

Aside from that, I knew how costly my ultimate would be and how important that it was to use it. You guys can all see that from the panic of lynching Stealthy to the point that the three mafia posted it in the same minute and the day ended.

 

[Easy]

We had one cop, one doctor, and one roleblocker. Tiger had some support, and Tirin could pick up an ability for a night if we died. We were hardly swimming in power roles.

Well, that just isn't counted properly. Your one cop had two lives, and the potential to investigate... what, 6 people by Night 3, and then execute one of them? That's not really just one cop. Similarly, you had enough Doctor to throw out 12 saves in that time, with some bonus roleblocks thrown in to boot. The Ryze role was capable of a roleblock and three redirects every night for 4 nights running, while Braum brought a potential additional 3 full-roleblocks and a perma-roleblock in that time. Meanwhile, Ekko could pick up any of those roles every night, and repeat any of them every other night, in addition to picking up whatever he's hit with. Half of you also had a built-in defense against nightkills.

Bulshit. I knew TC, FD, and Easy were acting scummy as shit, some of you even agreed to it, just because I didn't have anything that linked TC and Easy together Surprise TC was a traitor so the main scum team didn't even know they were linked to TC until the end. Every time I said anyone was scummy you guys shut me down and fell for their lies because I told results and let everyone stew in their own thoughts.

Yeah, I wanted people to think I was a tracker, so the mafia would go after me the next night, thinking I'm an easy kill because I was out of mana, when instead I would use the last of my mana to target the players who acted the scummiest after hearing the results I fucked up, SURPRISE AGAIN, I targeted 3/4 of them, I even told you who I targeted and fully claimed that I was actually the busdriver but instead of believing me you all decided FD was right when he basically said, "nah, he hid the truth by telling us who he's targeting and what happens after, but not what he " and disregarded everything I said after that point.

Your results were wrong. We didn't bother killing you because we could just Bus Drive you away from me and FD erry day, which we did.

My point is, Fuck you guys, I was right, you should have believed me instead of falling for FD's trap.

I will say my abilities were Kind of OP, I used three actions all but one night, where I only used two, I had a total of fifteen targets in four nights. Yeah, I didn't play it to the best of it's abilities, but it could have potentially won the game alone. Also, what's the point in having a doctor if the mafia have an ability that can ignore the doctor? Crippling Strike is pretty useless when you can ensure that you ignore any protecting abilities.

Burning 100 mana just to make your kill unstoppable in Role Madness? Possible Bus Driving and roleblocks around every corner? Nah. Much better to save up for that ultimate.

Compare flay, which permitted Easy to basically screw two people (especially given how few of us could afford multiple night actions) for the cost of 100 mana. He had a cap and start point of 300, so that means he could afford to do this thrice, and almost a fourth time by the time he did 3. The vig wouldn't have lasted more than a night anyway.
The second thing requires no elaboration.

My kit was strong, not gonna lie, but Flay itself was hardly the stronkest ability in the game. (You're just mad because it ended up killing you; you really should not have told everybody about how you got attacked at night.) And my ult was straight useless.

Well, I did try to kill Easy N2. You know.

Suck it.

 

[Requiem]

falling for FD's trap.

I won't lie and say that I didn't get bamboozled throughout this game, but to be quite frank, all Mafia role actions and posts aside, you really did not do yourself any favors whatsoever by playing the way you did. Instead of playing things close to your chest, you cut yourself open and said "hey everyone, here's my chest". You made at least me not want to listen to you. I can't speak for anyone else, but as I said before, it wasn't your actions I had a problem with, but your posts and how you talked about everything. There's much better ways of doing what you wanted to do and it's like you decided to pick the very worst way.

Also, just to put it out there, I think me and @Ro Ro Ro were thinking the same thing about how many mafia there were. 5 anti-town just seemed like far too many, so we operated under the assumption that there were, you know, a reasonable amount of anti-town roles.

 

[Shadow]

>winning team bragging about being victorious
>losing team blaming their teammates and complaining that the game is unbalanced
>Ro3 complaining that something is broken and overpowered

I have officially created a typical game of League of Legends in mafia form.

Seriously, though:

Your one cop had two lives, and the potential to investigate... what, 6 people by Night 3, and then execute one of them? That's not really just one cop. Similarly, you had enough Doctor to throw out 12 saves in that time, with some bonus roleblocks thrown in to boot. The Ryze role was capable of a roleblock and three redirects every night for 4 nights running, while Braum brought a potential additional 3 full-roleblocks and a perma-roleblock in that time. Meanwhile, Ekko could pick up any of those roles every night, and repeat any of them every other night, in addition to picking up whatever he's hit with. Half of you also had a built-in defense against nightkills.

This is also what I was thinking when I balanced (or lack thereof) the game. Add in Whitetiger's ult, the fact that Req essentially couldn't die, Shizno being able to talkrez somebody AND give them a lynch vote, and that the Serial Killer could potentially wipe the majority of them out, I felt that the mafia needed to be tuned up a bit. I didn't want to just straight up add a fourth member to the main faction, so I added a traitor to give them a bit of help without making it necessary for the town to kill him.

As for the roles, I wanted each of them to feel somewhat close to playing the actual champion they represent, and I wanted each role to be unique to itself. One of the problems in my previous League mafia was that some of the roles just were boring, had useless abilities, or just outright sucked. I wanted all of the roles to feel useful and cool to play. I feel like I accomplished that, aside from Req and Whitetiger (and maybe Shizno), who probably just need some minor tweaks. Some of the roles were also created in order to test certain mechanics that I may use in future games (Quinn and Aatrox are examples of this), and I feel like they also went fairly well.

And like Req said, this game was originally written to include more players. I wrote the draft for this game about 2 years ago, shortly after my first League mafia, when mafia was still actually a thing. I was hoping I could get about 17 - 20 players. But then mafia died for a while, and when I decided to try and run this game, I figured I was only going to be able to get about 15, and even that was pushing it, since I had to bring Tim and Shizno back, Req had to bring Whitetiger back, and I had to force Req and TC to play. That left me with way too many roles, so in order to cut down to 15 (and in an attempt to make some of them not suck), some roles got merged (Braum), some got re-written (Ekko), and some got dropped altogether (Taric the Double Voter). Unfortunately, instead of having the Town's power spread out among a wide variety of players, all this did was jam all of the power into a handful of roles, leaving other roles that went unchanged feeling slightly useless (Kayle and Alistar), and caused the game to snowball once the powerful Town roles began to die off.

So in short, there were things that I felt went well, and things that I could have done better. By all means, feel free to continue criticizing me if you feel the need. It only helps me to write better games in the future.

 

[Jeroth]

So in short, there were things that I felt went well, and things that I could have done better. By all means, feel free to continue criticizing me if you feel the need. It only helps me to write better games in the future.

Yeah, I have a question.

Why was Yorick not the gravedigger role? He seems like a perfect fit.

 

[Shadow]

Yeah, I have a question.

Why was Yorick not the gravedigger role? He seems like a perfect fit.

I used Yorick as the gravedigger in my other game and didn't want to recycle champions.

 

[Jeroth]

I used Yorick as the gravedigger in my other game and didn't want to recycle champions.

Ahhh. Got'cha. Zilean seems like a pretty good fit.

 

[Requiem]

So in short, there were things that I felt went well, and things that I could have done better.

This is the long and short of it for me. You did fine. Could have done better, but I'm not so mad that things didn't work out more fairly. Things could have easily changed for the Town in an instant had different roles survived to even just night 2.

In general though, I think tweaking the Mafia to give them more power could have easily been done without giving them a traitor or without giving them three members total. Two with a traitor I feel would have been fair. Mafia is a numbers game once you get right down to it, despite all of the role madness.

I used Yorick as the gravedigger in my other game and didn't want to recycle champions.

Considering how many characters are basically the same thing in League, this isn't a bad idea. Makes perfect sense.

Anyways, you did good Shadow, no matter what the end result is for people and how they view this game.

 

[Steal Thy Kill]

FWIW my/Tolvan's role was cool shit.

 

[Easy]

In general though, I think tweaking the Mafia to give them more power could have easily been done without giving them a traitor or without giving them three members total. Two with a traitor I feel would have been fair.

0_o

We'd have been screwed.

 

[Requiem]

Sure you would have.

 

[TimTh33nchant3r]

Bulshit. I knew TC, FD, and Easy were acting scummy as shit, some of you even agreed to it, just because I didn't have anything that linked TC and Easy together Surprise TC was a traitor so the main scum team didn't even know they were linked to TC until the end. Every time I said anyone was scummy you guys shut me down and fell for their lies because I told results and let everyone stew in their own thoughts.

Again, for what it's worth I tried to assassinate Easy.

My kit was strong, not gonna lie, but Flay itself was hardly the stronkest ability in the game. (You're just mad because it ended up killing you; you really should not have told everybody about how you got attacked at night.) And my ult was straight useless.

Suck it.

Not gonna lie, I shot myself in the face (twice) there.

0_o

We'd have been screwed.

Doubtful. You didn't take any casualties, so it's not like one extra townie would have done a whole hell of a lot to fuck you.

 

[Easy]

Sure you would have.

Well, look: It may seem like basically a +1 to scum vote count to you at this time, given how we just yanked that shit out from under getting ousted by the Cop, and in that crucial moment it totally was. Sure. But throughout the first three Day phases, the three of us were we putting hella time and discussion into trying to figure out who our Traitor was. Not only was he more susceptible to nightkills than your average Townie, but more susceptible to death by lynching as well, and he could easily end up implicating any or all of us when he died. Everyone would realize that the people he in particular had generally been agreeing with, would be a great place to narrow down their suspect lists to. The Traitor is a double-edged sword, and it's just as sharp on both ends.

Okay, maybe not just as sharp on this end. Still pretty sharp, though.

We got lucky with a lot of things. Day 1 Vig lynch. Tirin killing himself. Tim blabbing to everybody about the Flay effect so we could take care of the SK there. Tag consistently letting us know who he was going to target. Whitetiger and Shizno getting killed early on. Tolvan being one of the few Townies that didn't have nightkill protection when we targeted him. Any one of those things not going the way they did could have, and probably would have, led to us being wiped this game, despite the fact that we honestly did all play it pretty well, and a lot of the Town played like total shit.

Doubtful. You didn't take any casualties, so it's not like one extra townie would have done a whole hell of a lot to fuck you.

One more Town vote, and one less scum vote. We'd have either been unable to execute Stealthy, or all been lynched one after another aftwerwards. Probably without even getting off a single successful nightkill in the meantime.

 

[Jeroth]

Well, look: It may seem like basically a +1 to scum vote count to you at this time, given how we just yanked that shit out from under getting ousted by the Cop, and in that crucial moment it totally was. Sure. But throughout the first three Day phases, the three of us were we putting hella time and discussion into trying to figure out who our Traitor was. Not only was he more susceptible to nightkills than your average Townie, but more susceptible to death by lynching as well, and he could easily end up implicating any or all of us when he died. Everyone would realize that the people he in particular had generally been agreeing with, would be a great place to narrow down their suspect lists to. The Traitor is a double-edged sword, and it's just as sharp on both ends.

Okay, maybe not just as sharp on this end. Still pretty sharp, though.

Yeah. Hell, I jumped into our Night 1 discussion with: Who could the traitor be?

We got lucky with a lot of things. Day 1 Vig lynch. Tirin killing himself. Tim blabbing to everybody about the Flay effect so we could take care of the SK there. Tag consistently letting us know who he was going to target. Whitetiger and Shizno getting killed early on. Tolvan being one of the few Townies that didn't have nightkill protection when we targeted him. Any one of those things not going the way they did could have, and probably would have, led to us being wiped this game, despite the fact that we honestly did all play it pretty well, and a lot of the Town played like total shit.

Bolded and underlined that. A lot of events went into our favor.

One more Town vote, and one less scum vote. We'd have either been unable to execute Stealthy, or all been lynched one after another aftwerwards. Probably without even getting off a single successful nightkill in the meantime.

Yeah. We had to carefully "tunnel" our killer with Ethereal chain to make certain they wouldn't get roleblocked/reversed onto us.

 

[Requiem]

The Traitor is a double-edged sword, and it's just as sharp on both ends.

I know. I put a Traitor in the first mafia game we played on URealms.

We'd have either been unable to execute Stealthy, or all been lynched one after another aftwerwards. Probably without even getting off a single successful nightkill in the meantime.

That's starting from the basis that if you had one less mafia member and everything went exactly as it did, you wouldn't have been able to execute Stealthy.

If you'd had one less mafia member from the start, things could have and probably would have gone a lot differently. Again, role madness does account for a lot of why this game went the way it did, but that doesn't change that at the core of the game's mechanics, things were imbalanced. Anything could have happened and I don't really care about lynch vote abilities at this time. The sheer advantage of being in a reasonably large group that knows each other, has a night kill, and has a traitor to back them up is what causes the imbalance. That's why it's usually best to keep mafia/anti town to 1 per 5 town.

I'm not saying the game was unwinnable for the Town, but that with the game being 1/3rd anti-town, even with the Town having more role abilities than the mafia, things were not exactly even. Just because things could have gone in the Town's favor doesn't change that fact. It's not about discussing what could have happened, but discussing how the game functioned less than great at its core.

Like actual League, the game is unbalanced and the meta is horrible.

 

[Requiem]

Like actual League, the game is unbalanced and the meta is horrible.

This is a joke at League's expense, btw. Just to get that out there.

 

[Tag_Ross]

Tag consistently letting us know who he was going to target.

Did I ever tell who I was going to target? Besides night 2 after everyone else locked in their results.

 

[Shadow]

Like actual League, the game is unbalanced and the meta is horrible.

I have officially created a typical game of League of Legends in mafia form.

 

[Requiem]

Telling them in any way at any time who you were targeting was the problem.

That's part of what I meant when I said you should have been playing close to the chest. Mafia isn't about running around shouting what you are going to do, even if you think everyone else has put their actions in. Telling them what you're going to do gives them information and insight into how you're playing the game, thus giving them plenty of ideas on what you might do next. It also lets them play against you far more effectively.

And also also, since you targeted the mafia successfully, they knew to fuck with everything you were doing, which Easy has said as much. Also also also, because you were so damn sure that what you were doing was helping the Town, when you lied about your night actions and what you could do, you pretty much told the mafia, "Hello, I'm super Town and I'm going to be throwing away any ability to be credible or to help the Town itself. Please don't kill me in any way as my own actions in this game shall be a hindrance to my unwitting allies. Tata gents."

 

[Easy]

That's starting from the basis that if you had one less mafia member and everything went exactly as it did, you wouldn't have been able to execute Stealthy.

If you'd had one less mafia member from the start, things could have and probably would have gone a lot differently. Again, role madness does account for a lot of why this game went the way it did, but that doesn't change that at the core of the game's mechanics, things were imbalanced. Anything could have happened and I don't really care about lynch vote abilities at this time. The sheer advantage of being in a reasonably large group that knows each other, has a night kill, and has a traitor to back them up is what causes the imbalance. That's why it's usually best to keep mafia/anti town to 1 per 5 town.

Right. Our group of people that knew each other was limited to 3 out of 15, or 1/5. And frankly, for all intents and purposes we didn't really have a regular nightkill at all. Just one nightkill for the entire game, in fact.

I'm not saying the game was unwinnable for the Town, but that with the game being 1/3rd anti-town, even with the Town having more role abilities than the mafia, things were not exactly even. Just because things could have gone in the Town's favor doesn't change that fact. It's not about discussing what could have happened, but discussing how the game functioned less than great at its core.

"Could have" nothing. Things went exceptionally well for us, and we ended up cutting it pretty close in the end. All three (/four) of us both played well and got lucky, while the Town as a whole had a lot of setbacks and some very bad plays. By definition, that should have meant a guaranteed win for us in a well-balanced game, but frankly we still stood to lose outright on Day 4 because of that strong-ass Quinn deal.

Anyway, I liked the game. I liked my role, too - it was neat as fuck. I would say that my only gripe is that the ult is super useless, but in fairness, that's only because the other two abilities put together do more work than the ultimate, while also being a hell of a lot cheaper. (Because after a few people die, DS and Flay become very, very good).

I didn't care about my ultimate because my regular abilities were ult material, is what I'm saying.

They were almost as good as Tag's.

The Darius role... hard to say. On the one hand, it was downright... what's the word fgts are using these days... oh right, tilted, in the end game. On the other hand, it felt pretty useless early and mid game, (if only because we didn't fully appreciate how goddamn always your average Townie had some kind of kill-protection). I'd say it balances out pretty okay, though sure, that's a little biased. Town will probably disagree, though, to be fair, that's pretty biased too.

The LeBlanc role, arguably our most important, was excellent.

Teemo can burn in hell.

Did I ever tell who I was going to target? Besides night 2 after everyone else locked in their results.

No, you just made it incredibly obvious without saying it outright.