2016 Election Clusterfun

[Firedemon]

Trump doesn't need to be competent to do serious damage though. I could go in depth about all the things he could fuck up without his party's support (foreign policy being the easiest and most obvious) but I think I have the best words right here.

Nuclear launch detected.

Okay, fine, I'll go into some level of depth. First off, what is he going to do the first time some kind of international crisis hits? Whether it be Russia invading another neighboring country, ISIS ramping up its expansion, or North Korea having another tantrum, Drumpf will be the one deciding how to respond. When Drumpf realizes he can't sue them, what will he do? He probably doesn't understand foreign policy well enough to pursue sanctions and crap. He will respond with force, I am certain. He will grossly overreact to every crisis and it will fuck things up.

 

[The Hound]

And you're telling me that Hillary and her actual history of being incredibly bad at handling foreign policy will do better and that's assuming the middle east specifically ISIS would even respect a madam president (not that that's a reason not to vote for a woman president, just that it's another obstacle she'd have to overcome). Again don't get me wrong Trump is also very likely to fuck up the middle east but Hillary actually has a record to show her inadequacy in handling foreign matters.

I don't think you guys are wrong but I think you're severely overestimating Trump and severely underestimating Hillary and I wish people would realize that it's not a better or worse, it's a we're pretty fucked regardless of what we get. The more we demonize Trump the more Hillary wins, and it really needs to be equal demonization and right now since Hillary is the obstacle blocking the Bern we need to treat her like enemy number 1.

 

[13thforsworn]

Hillary and her actual history of being incredibly bad at handling foreign policy

Are you referring to Benghazi? She took responsibility for it, but can she actually be blamed for it?

 

[The Hound]

Maybe I missed it but I never saw her take responsibility, I saw a lot of avoidance and slight of hand to distract from her lack of answers on it. So she took responsibility for it? For the deaths of multiple civilians and diplomats and yet we're still talking like she has any credibility on foreign policy, if anything that just proves my point that Trump might seem scary but Hillary actually has shown how scary she is.

And yea that's how blame works, if it's on your desk a plea for security because of perceived threat and you ignore it and that threat comes to fruition it gets blamed on you for not acting. Which is why I'm shocked she actually took responsibility because for the longest time she was deflecting.

EDIT: I'm really glad I have you guys to talk with about this, my roommate has forbidden me from bringing up politics and it's been building up inside me since yesterday.

 

[13thforsworn]

Maybe I missed it but I never saw her take responsibility, I saw a lot of avoidance and slight of hand to distract from her lack of answers on it. So she took responsibility for it? For the deaths of multiple civilians and diplomats and yet we're still talking like she has any credibility on foreign policy, if anything that just proves my point that Trump might seem scary but Hillary actually has shown how scary she is.

I can hardly blame Clinton for the specific choices made by security experts. They chose to defend the compound in Benghazi a certain way, while Clinton was thousands of kilometres away in the US. Is it really her fault that the compound in Benghazi was attacked, and that the parameters put in place by those security experts were not enough to prevent the deaths of Americans? I wouldn't say so. I don't think the US has the tradition of ministerial responsibility, but she decided to take responsibility for the tragedy, because she was the Secretary of State. The failures of Benghazi were not due to decisions she made, but by individuals in Benghazi, the intelligence community, and the State Department, who were suppose to keep the compound, and Ambassador Stevens safe.

 

[Easy]

But how much successful foreign policy has she supported over the years?

 

[Tag_Ross]

I'll vote drumpf over Clinton any day, why?

Because if we're gonna fuck up let's at least fuck up so badly that we actually decide to do something to fix the mess we caused by voting him in.

I think Hilary is politically competent enough to keep us at a level of "almost content " that we just complain about her, where as Drumpf would be so incompetent that we have actually get off our asses and fix the system that's been broken for ages.

 

[Firedemon]

But Tag, what if he deports you?

No, really. Tag, he might ACTUALLY try to deport you. Then again...

Tag, what if he doesn't deport you and you're forced to live through all of this mess?

 

[Tag_Ross]

Well, I'm an anchor baby, so it'd be kind of hard to deport me while I'm still in the country.

 

[Steal Thy Kill]

An article about how Hillary actually probably has the nomination locked up, in contrast to the article FD linked earlier.

The tl;dr of it points out that 1) the Democrats have all proportional primaries so the margin by which you win matters, and Hillary has been winning big in the places with a lot of delegates, so it'll take something significant for Bernie to catch up, 2) Bernie has dicks for support among minorities; the Democrats as a whole are a broad and diverse coalition while Bernie's coalition is not and that is severely limiting his options, 3) Bernie is not meeting his targets for a path to the nomination, and that doesn't look to improve.

Personally, I haven't counted Bernie out yet. He's by no means in a good or even okay position, but I don't think his chances can be counted as dead in the water until March 15th.

 

[The Hound]

But 13th that's what foreign policy is, it's almost always what you do from behind a desk from a thousand miles away and you mention that the State department is to blame... You mean the department she was the head of? The decision came down the the Department of State, she was the leader, they ignored credible information, an attack occurred and they went into protect mode and began claiming it was because of an internet video. Sorry that receives a big F in my book, if Bernie or Trump were in that situation and it turned out this FUBAR I'd be flaying them for their ineptitude at handling potential disasters overseas.

Again it just bothers me the amount of shit directed at Trump when Hillary is the competition right now.

Stealthy that's my feeling, I've still got hope but not much at this point... Actually this whole thing has killed the last remaining hope that this system is salvageable, I had held out hope that if a real dynamic candidate existed that maybe we could get away from the same milktoast corporate influenced sneaky snakes we always get. But it's clear that even if one did exist the system would go out of it's way to kill his chances. Honestly I knew this back in 2000 when the Democrats blamed Al Gore's loss on the Green Party and basically killed any national relevance it has (still wins seats sometimes but hasn't been the same since). The resounding answer our government gives is don't think outside of the box.

 

[Deleted member 13]

If Hillary gets the nomination, we should all vote Green Party in the general and throw the vote. It'll be four glorious years of pissed off old people yelling about how we sabotaged the country while Trump invades Mexico to make them pay for his wall.

Plus, Jill Stein is like Bernie on steroids. I fucking love Jill Stein.

 

[Tolvan]

If Hillary gets the nomination, we should all vote Green Party in the general and throw the vote. It'll be four glorious years of pissed off old people yelling about how we sabotaged the country while Trump invades Mexico to make them pay for his wall.

Plus, Jill Stein is like Bernie on steroids. I fucking love Jill Stein.

A friend of mine said they'd write in Optimus Prime. I'm almost tempted to do so as well.

 

[Easy]

Plus, Jill Stein is like Bernie on steroids. I fucking love Jill Stein.

Bernie ran a 4:17 mile in high school. Safe to say that Jill Stein is not on his level, steroids or otherwise.

 

[Frilzer]

Can we change to an alternative voting system so we can get some new parties that aren't always saying one thing and then doing another? Its impossible now or we will have a spoiler effect, but seriously, I'm sick of having to choose people I cannot agree with / trust. (oh wait, politicians...)

Anyway, not that we are ever getting a more effective voting system would ever be possible, the congress that would have to vote it in is far too happy with a two party system.

/rant

By the way, I think all of the candidates are awful. If I had to pick one, I'd say Cruz, but there is no way he is electable.

Plus watching current political parties fall apart at the seams is entertaining... kinda... not really...

 

[Requiem]

Even if I didn't agree with Bernie's plans and ideas, he's at least a good man, as far as I can see it and especially when compared with everyone else. He plays a quiet game for the most part and doesn't antagonize the other candidates. Sometimes he makes ill-timed jabs that are unnecessary, but I chalk that up to a small amount of mistakes made in a campaign where every other candidate is making countless mistakes or stands on a history of continuous mistakes, so it about evens out for me.

I'm not freaked out with the concept of picking someone based on their compassion and drive to serve. Bernie rides coach when he flies somewhere, walks to work when he's not away on his campaign, interrupts his own campaign speeches when a man passes out close by to make sure the man is okay. I could keep listing stuff, but honestly, the reason I bring these things up at all is because people still say all of the candidates are awful. There are redeeming qualities for... some of the candidates and even if you don't necessarily agree with Sanders' ideas, it has to be easy to admit that he's at least a good person and I can't believe I'm saying this, but that's refreshing to see in someone trying to become the leader of the free world.

Instead of it being a race to see who can be the shittiest person the best, Sanders is treating this like an actual election, respecting his colleagues, being kind to the people he meets, and just all around being a good person. I know paying attention to a candidate's policies is almost the most important thing to take into account for an election on this scale, but shouldn't morality and ethics play just as important of a role? Maybe some people don't agree with his ideas and that's okay, but voting for anyone else would be a mistake if all of the candidates are indeed "awful". I'd rather have the "awful" politician who is a good, kind man as opposed to the "awful" politicians who are just spouting nonsense and hate speech 24/7.

 

[The Hound]

On a positive note Hillary's staffer who set up her email server was granted immunity, so hopefully he squeals like a piggy. Though I have my doubts it wouldn't just get buried to protect Hilldog.

And yea Req, you basically summed up my feelings for Bernie, there's a lot I don't like about his policies but as a person... Well he is a person and not a heartless lizardman like Trump and Hillary.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Bernie ran a 4:17 mile in high school. Safe to say that Jill Stein is not on his level, steroids or otherwise.

...Is this man even real or is he some sort of elaborate myth?

 

[Easy]

By the way, I think all of the candidates are awful. If I had to pick one, I'd say Cruz, but there is no way he is electable.

That's terrible, because Cruz is disgusting even by American standards, and Bernie is excellent even by Western standards.

...Is this man even real or is he some sort of elaborate myth?

That... was a fuckup. My bad. It was actually 4:37.

someone trying to become the leader of the free world.

Y'know... to be real straight with you, I'm not sure I really understand the constant use that Americans make of this term. POTUS may lead the US, but the US really only leads the free world in all the decidedly non-free world categories, like incarceration rate and legal drinking age. It's weird.

 

[The Hound]

So if ya'll had to pick a Republican, and I mean had to like on penalty of death who'd you take?

I'm going with Kasich cuz he's technically still around. Or if I had to pick one of the ones who's actually won a state I'd take Rubio, but not happily.