Ended Jeroth's Overwatch Mafia [ Town Victory!]
- Thread starter Jeroth
- Start date
I'm glad you two on the bench have reached a consensus!
I've largely felt Tirin was town past day 2 but maybe he's up to some funny business.
Look, we can either no lynch today or take a chance on the two best players in the game. I'm happy to no lynch, but if you've had doubts on either one of these two all game now's the time to talk about it. Bar some crazy circumstances you can try and lynch me tomorrow, cause I care about this game and I ain't self lynching again. I was feeling keen to lynch Easy personally but i've tried to go back and do some thinking on Tirin as well, as said above. His defence on being more blood thirsty as an SK doesn't make too much sense, due to fragility in the night and the power of day lynches. Ensuring 100% towniness by fucking up the mafia is what I assume an SK Tirin/Easy would do. Maybe Sombra's not even in the game, 'cause it isn't me.
Yeah actually, I guess I am leaning towards Tirin today.
Hasn't Tirin's role also been ambiguous? Hasn't Tirin been a dedicated bus hunter? Did Tirin not succeed in halting Dunsparce's ult, lowering our townie numbers and leaving us at an impasse today?
I've largely felt Tirin was town past day 2 but maybe he's up to some funny business.
Look, we can either no lynch today or take a chance on the two best players in the game. I'm happy to no lynch, but if you've had doubts on either one of these two all game now's the time to talk about it. Bar some crazy circumstances you can try and lynch me tomorrow, cause I care about this game and I ain't self lynching again. I was feeling keen to lynch Easy personally but i've tried to go back and do some thinking on Tirin as well, as said above. His defence on being more blood thirsty as an SK doesn't make too much sense, due to fragility in the night and the power of day lynches. Ensuring 100% towniness by fucking up the mafia is what I assume an SK Tirin/Easy would do. Maybe Sombra's not even in the game, 'cause it isn't me.
Yeah actually, I guess I am leaning towards Tirin today.
I boosted 3 people last night: Anatron, Tirin and Andy. The Andy boost in particular failed. Ordinarily, I can't be roleblocked, so I buy his claim that he made himself untargetable. Andy was also the person I chose to hide behind, so it's possible I got targeted in some way.
To-date, that is the only game I feel I've done particularly well in.
EDIT: SORRY I FORGOT I DIED
Since we're down to the wire and I called you out on not responding to me, I'll apologise for forgetting you're Mercy. I was tunnel visioned on Easy, and I haven't partaken too much in all the damage/character analysis due to not really having played or watched Overwatch stuff for months, my friend group got tired of it quickly for some reason. I was (Riskily) going off of Tirin's word for a lot of it, and until he reminded me you were Mercy I forgot it had been discussed.
*And tunnel visioned on you being scum, of course. I always like to stand by my theories, but I think it's pretty clear cut that you're town, mercy, 100%. With all the dodging abilities people seem to have I would question Anatron's actual protecting, but a likely Earthshatter rather then Sombra ult continues to further his Reinhardt claim, and there's gotta be 1 tank if Easy isn't really Zarya.
As it stands, there's no way this day will end without either Tirin or Easy getting lynched. I have no intention of voting for a no lynch. It's practically irrelevant who voteblocked who. There's a lot of information that's been thrown around, and it'll take me a while to digest it all. Tirin, Easy, please tell me why I shouldn't lynch you, and why I should lynch the other.
Uh... no and no? Our numbers weren't lowered, just not increased, and it's been very clear that my role has been that of a tracker for a long time. One which has provided accurate information, at that. I also was the first to put a lynch on Req and switched over to Coolpool, saving Dunsparce when you were still on the "let's kill him" train. You were also the second-last person to lynch Coolpool - after Req, so... there's that.
Yeah, guys, lynch the one townie who's been able to consistently provide accurate information on who was targeted and tried to use it to get scum. Clearly, Easy and I are the most likely scum, since we were the first two lynches on Coolpool and we both voted to lynch Req. You haven't provided any information worth shit and have either been crying, randomly pointing fingers, or going along with whatever happens all game.
Oh - and you suddenly care a whole lot about this game, too, now that we're down to the wire and there's the chance to get me or Easy out of it. How strange.
I... what? Why would you possibly want to vote to lynch now, when it's impossible to lynch three-fifths of the players and town has a clearcut way to keep people safe at night? Andy evaded and there's no reason to believe that Easy or I have access to an ability that does it; Andy's more likely to be scum, since Sombra (and Junkrat) could both justifiably have such an ability. On top of that, do you not think that Andy suddenly pushing hard for lynches - when, look at that, he can't get lynched - is weird at all? It's scummy as fuck.
I'm not gonna tell you why you should lynch Easy, because right now it's a retarded idea. The town's voting power is objectively restricted, and if one of you, Anatron, or fucking Andy (emphasis on the latter) is scum, then that means you're actually guaranteed to lynch town - the chance that this game is 5 town, 3 scum, and an SK is effectively zero (at least, low enough that I think it's not worth considering), and I'm certainly not an anti-town role. At this juncture, I doubt Easy is, either.
@Anatronman @Dunsparce You guys should no lynch; if one of you refuses, the other should take a stand so the hammer can't fall. Either of the two lynches you could make stands a legitimate chance of fucking over town for zero gain, and you'll both look like dumbasses if you do it.
I pretty much knew Tirin was a tracker from early Day 2. I've also known* Dunsparce was a Mercy from way early on in Day 3, because he's either not as clever as he thinks and Town, or exactly as clever as he thinks and scum. (To be fair, though, being fully aware of a particular damage-boosting ability of my own gave me a bit of an edge on that partial deduction.)
Being a tracker and giving accurate** results doesn't necessarily make Tirin town, but he could've probably gotten me lynched today if he was the issue. All's he had to do was deny that he got my healing, which I can confirm that he got. I can also confirm that the rest of you didn't get it, because I didn't ult last night (and would've healed enough to bring absolutely everybody back to full health, if I had done so).
Why didn't I ult last night? Well, that's a silly question. Given that I've got good reason to believe there's a Sombra with an ult up, that's still active in this game, and given that I myself am the only person I can't personally heal, and given that the vast majority of my hp is in shields which a Sombra ult would classically completely strip away while shutting down my whole ult, using my ult last night could damn well have wasted the whole thing - and would absolutely have gotten me killed, if another 80 damage and a Sombra ult had accompanied the 65 damage I took last night. Abstaining from the ult could have just as easily gotten me killed anyway, sure, but at least I'd still have the ult still up for in case I got resurrected afterwards.
So yeah, no, Andy needs to die. Okay, "need" is a strong word - but it's the best bet, and I really don't think his Genji claim fits.
*This seems to check out.
**Giving accurate results doesn't necessarily make Tirin town, 'cause Sombra can track also, and his N2 results on who targeted Req actually seem to clash with (the combination of) FD's flip, and Anatron and Andy's claim. Of these, though, I actually doubt Andy the most.
Being a tracker and giving accurate** results doesn't necessarily make Tirin town, but he could've probably gotten me lynched today if he was the issue. All's he had to do was deny that he got my healing, which I can confirm that he got. I can also confirm that the rest of you didn't get it, because I didn't ult last night (and would've healed enough to bring absolutely everybody back to full health, if I had done so).
Why didn't I ult last night? Well, that's a silly question. Given that I've got good reason to believe there's a Sombra with an ult up, that's still active in this game, and given that I myself am the only person I can't personally heal, and given that the vast majority of my hp is in shields which a Sombra ult would classically completely strip away while shutting down my whole ult, using my ult last night could damn well have wasted the whole thing - and would absolutely have gotten me killed, if another 80 damage and a Sombra ult had accompanied the 65 damage I took last night. Abstaining from the ult could have just as easily gotten me killed anyway, sure, but at least I'd still have the ult still up for in case I got resurrected afterwards.
So yeah, no, Andy needs to die. Okay, "need" is a strong word - but it's the best bet, and I really don't think his Genji claim fits.
*This seems to check out.
**Giving accurate results doesn't necessarily make Tirin town, 'cause Sombra can track also, and his N2 results on who targeted Req actually seem to clash with (the combination of) FD's flip, and Anatron and Andy's claim. Of these, though, I actually doubt Andy the most.
Lowered then what they theoretically could be counts as lowered in my mind.
I knew you had tracking abilities, but didn't know who to pin that to in Overwatch and hadn't see that done until Easy said you might be an SK Hanzo.
You didn't deny or argue my thoughts on what you would do as an SK besides "Never lynch anyone who does things that benefit the town". I kind of think that's the only way to survive as an SK.
Saying I haven't contributed to the game, is a massive stretch. Haven't provided information for your theories, though I always replied to them. To argue I've sat on my hands and done nothing all game is a fabrication as bad as some of Dunsparce's comments, except we know he's Mercy now, so I've given him a pass. I've done some analysis. I've said my thoughts. I've replied to people, accused people and pointed out hypocrisies or dismissals. Fight my lack of successful scum hunting if you will, dismiss me as a toddler pointing fingers and you can get out of here. Act like I haven't cared about this game since the dawn of Day 2 and you can get out of here.
Looks bad, but don't deny you and Easy overpower conversations. I've been proactive in putting my thoughts and information out when I have it. People didn't like my theories, Req even tried to look good by dismissing it immediately (Probably guessed you were town). I've said any information I have, such as taking damage, targeting, and dodging. But as i've been dodging most nights, (My deflect blade does not deflect damage, but instead makes me untargetable) , I haven't had much to report. Sort of was waiting for people to quiz me on how I avoided things, never really happened.
Whenever you're desperate for people to make the decision you like, you outright shame the alternative. I seriously dislike that. A game of deception requires people to be comfortable being deceived.
To reiterate above, Tracker yup, we knew that, was referring to anything deeper than that, such as which Character and what other abilities he could have. I think you're the only person to point out he could be a Lone Hanzo.
Basically you mean Tirin was smart enough not to turn this into a 50/50 game of "Will people believe me or Easy?"
I assumed and were right that you would go through with targeting me. If you are who you say you are that makes sense and I don't argue that, I was kind of referring to everyone else who might have a damaging ult.
Added some clarification to the Deflection mechanic used above. My ult changes the damage of my dash, and gives my deflect actual damage reflection as well as invulnerability.
I didn't force Dunsparce to do anything; I rightfully cautioned him against popping a game-changing ult that could be stopped outright, especially since if Sombra can steal abilities, that would be a critical one to lose. Not taking the risk of +1 scum is not the same as "denying us a guaranteed townie" - and, again, I don't determine the dude's night actions. He made that decision himself.
He also, presumably, did use his ult, since he managed to boost me, you, and Anatron - so I didn't deny townies at all, even in your roundabout, accusatory fashion.
I'll tell you this: I wouldn't be providing way more information than necessary to town by tracking when I could be shooting the fuck out of you instead. My other abilities can do some pretty significant damage, which I imagine would only be higher if I was an SK.
Haven't provided information for... anyone's theories, beyond numbers that are easily invented. Have done your best to keep out of the spotlight since the start of day 2. Didn't lynch Req at all; only lynched Coolpool when it was clear he was fucked. Your scumhunting rate stands at a fat fucking nothing, and that doesn't give me the impression of a townie.
You only roleclaimed Genji after the suspicion came up that we had a Genji in the first place. Your claim has been inconsistent; you said you can dash offensively or defensively, but also that your deflect "only" makes you untargetable. How would your dash provide defensive value, then? Surely such an ability would make you untargetable, as with Tracer's blink and 76's sprint; it's certainly not gonna mitigate damage. And, in that case - what's the point of the deflect? To only work when you have ult up?
I'm shaming the alternative to a no lynch because the options are lynch me, a townie, or lynch Easy, who I'm getting way more townie vibes from than you - I have consistently been getting healed while Dunsparce has been boosting my damage, after all, and no Talon character could do that. You've literally been pushing hard as fuck to lynch us since the moment you realized we can't vote, which is scummy as all hell. I don't give a shit about the lies - as a townie I care about finding the truth, and ain't nobody gonna get that truth value by killing me.
If I were a serial killer, that would actually be "dumb enough" here, since I'm pretty confident people would believe me over Easy and I still have my ult up.
Gee, maybe it's almost like tracking for more info is better than fuckloads of damage if I'm not an SK and thus don't want to murder townies.
Wonderful, so you add tidbits to your ability whenever doubt gets cast on it. Seems legit. It doesn't even make a lot of sense for your ult to change what your abilities do, when just about everyone else in the game (barring Widowmaker and, presumably, Mercy) gets to put damage somewhere, and it's highly inconsistent with your claim at that - as I pointed out earlier.
Also said he could be a Sombra (can see low-health enemies through walls, like (in-game)Widow can with ult, only Widow A) needs an ult, and B) was dead already by the time Tirin confirmed tracking). Hanzo's a better fit because: A) he can see through walls without ult, B) can see through walls regardless of whether the enemy player has high (or even full) HP or not, C) has a Sonic Arrow (though this part has much lesser weight, because Tirin named it himself).
But Hanzo also isn't technically part of Overwatch, and not necessarily a straight-up protagonist. I'd also toyed with the idea that he could be a Pharah, who's hand-waved in for tracking with "you can fly up high and see everybody," but then the Sonic Arrow thing came in.
To some extent, even the "Sonic Arrow" thing could be a lie used to get around the rule against outright roleclaiming, and he actually is a Pharah that felt the direct Hanzo claim would be the least-damaging way to put out his effective Pharah claim without actually breaking the rules. I kinda used the same logic, to some extent, to justify the fake ass semi-subtle Zarya claims, so I wouldn't hate.
Goddammit, Andy. I wanna make a joke so badly, but it'd be a dick move.
Hey, true, but... here's how:
Guessed? And you're sure Tirin is Town? Hell, even I'm not sure of that - and I'm a pretty big fan of preferring no-lynch instead to lynching him. ("Or myself" ought to go without saying, but the above is most significant.)
Oh - so you do deal 80 damage? Cause that's come up, and you haven't confirmed it when I was getting doubted on the value.
It mostly requires people not to be comfortable with that. That's a requirement for the game to have any semblance of competition, in fact.
Yeah - so?
That's not 50/50. I easily could have been hammered last Day phase, if he hadn't pulled off of me when he did. FD flipping Town didn't help that situation for me at all, from the perspective that Tirin's scum, because he easily could have denied my allegations and pursued me as the backup plan today. At least one Townie would have gone right for it just as easily as they went for me yesterday, if not more so.
Maybe he's playing the really, really long game where he keeps that shit airtight even when it's not to his clear advantage at the time; he's smart enough, but that's convoluted to the extreme point that I seriously doubt it. There are much simpler, more likely explanations, like: You're Lying.
...which you didn't think anyone should use in the first place, because you feel that any aggressive behavior is anti-Town at this point?
...
Okay so, I'd believe, like, a third of that.
And even if I believed all of it, what the fuck happened with Anatron attacking FD? Tirin called that shit before Anatron did, and Tirin called my N1 targets even before that (or possibly after, I don't remember, doesn't matter). Problem is, Tirin would have to bullshit really confidently with extreme good fortune to have gotten all that right, if he didn't actually have the tracking ability he claims to have. The idea that he can drive the buses and also track the hits he's claimed to track doesn't fit well with either Sombra or Hanzo characters, because Hanzo can't drive buses and Sombra's passive specifically requires missing HP. (Pharah could conceivably both drive buses and track hits, but that only strengthens the point; Phara's Town AF.)
Therefore, the idea that you're lying, and Tirin's telling the truth, is more viable a theory than the reverse.
hol up easy i'll reply to you too haha gimme a sec
You seem to lack defensive abilities, convincing the town to protect you seems like it would be a good way to counter-act that.
Maybe not information but again, since i've been dodging almost every night, how else can I? I provided some defence for Req, but largely came around to the logic. Dunsparce hopped on for dear life, whereas Anatron remain unconvinced. I literally had Req lynched on the day we killed Coolpool, and said I was keen to kill Req on the next day too. I would have been the hammer and I was asking for Anatron or someone to say some final words on the matter, and they did so by hammering.
Dash dodges one attack, Deflect makes me untargetable. Deflect has a cooldown, Dash does not. I assume Jeroth would have preferred me to be more offensive with it but I found the idea a challenging prospect, especially after Req pumped me, and Genji not having a bunch of health. My ult is still a one time decision, just goes more like "I'm using my ult to super dash at Tirin, or I'm using my ult with deflect." You've role claimed as a tracker and that's it. The only people that have claimed are the people that were getting pressed, or people like Easy who were trying to trick people out. Sort of a catch-22, you lot made accurate guesses and then suddenly i'm not allowed to be that character without it being suspicious? I mean yeah, I get how it looks, but what else can I do but be honest?
I think you could have done it better but idk maybe i'm being picky again.
I think the lack of night deaths, and the current existence of a rein, a mercy, and a potential zen are enough to suggest that going ham with damage might not be the most effective method compared to day lynching.
I mean last time I checked going "ALRIGHT GUYS GUESS IT'S TIME TO LAY OUT EVERYTHING ABOUT MY ROLE" was against the rules/spirit of the game. I mentioned I could dodge, and the nature of my dodge lead me to believe a lot of other peoples abilities could be turned construed as one. Nobody questioned me on it then, no need to play my hand any further. My only guaranteed defence move has a cool down, I think i'm gonna be a little cautious.
I probably deserve it haha.
Hold on hold on hold on. Big misunderstanding here. I'm going with the Hanzo SK theory myself, I've mentioned it more than the Sombra theory, though I'll admit you two seemed to prefer the Sombra stuff. Yesterday I was game for you being Sombra, but this train of late game events has ended up in a way where
-> FD dies
-> I die
-> Lot of groundwork done against Easy on the FD day
-> Easy dies?
-> Possible night kill finally
-> Tirin SK win.
So yeah, when I said "Req guessed Tirin was town" I'm literally saying he made a guess and not saying whether or not he's right or not. All Req would know in the SK scenario was the Tirin was not on his team. And given how Req gave up and wasn't really motivated on day one, who's to say he even gave the existence of an SK a thought? I'm saying Req bounced off me, (A townie) to counter claims against another (in his mind) townie, in order to look like a nice guy keep the town focused sort of thing in the events that I died or Tirin died.
Yeah sorry I saw you doubt this and forgot to reply amidst, well, everything. My Dash does 120, my Shurikens do 80. You pointed out that wasn't divisible by 3 and I didn't really have a response for that. That's just what it does. I was poking you and wanted to see what would happen, so I didn't dash ya.
Discussion for a different time, but I think that's a little pedantic.
I think this was a reply, not an accusation haha. I was just saying we didn't know too much about Tirin's role, and you were like hey now dawg most people with brains knew he was a tracker of some kind, and I was like hey dawg true, I was referring to Overwatch characters and ability analysis and what not.
Since i'm not lying, I have no choice but to believe Tirin's playing the convoluted long game or my scum hunting is really dogshit and he was right about you yesterday. As much as Tirin is annoyed at my claim, from my perspective, he's the one with the weakest character claim despite a lot of positive town actions, i'm super convinced about Anatron and Dunsparce, so yeah that leaves you two. Kind of funny how this has ended up.
I can't see peoples health, nor do I remember how many health updates we've gotten, but if people are sitting at around half health any AOE or super direct damage is gonna cause some fuckin pain. If we assume Jeroth balanced this correctly we've got a lot of night kills unaccounted for (Yes I know i've been wasting a lot of dps personally but Rein and an SK Hanzo could carry some hurt for sure by themselves).
Do you lot not remember when I said I took 182 damage, I'm sitting at 18 health dammit. You're damn right i've done fuck all but dodge stuff.
I ain't a cleverboi and don't have an answer for this. I won't pretend to either. I'm super curious as to what the answer is though, and the death of you or Tirin will reveal all. I also don't really know Doomfists moveset well, or at all, but if he could punch blokes so hard they misdirect their shots, and do some cool African tracking stuff, wouldn't surprise me.
Nah, me dying after you still leaves Anatron and Dunspace to clean up against Tirin. They've both fairly reliably claimed strong as fuck anti-nightkill abilities, each with at least one instance of serious risk in case of a bad call. Maybe their claims are too strong to be true, but an SK Tirin couldn't be sure of that. I'm certainly hella not sure of that, and you're claiming a lot more powerful a role than I myself have.
I never doubted it. Tirin did, while you were helping him lynch me.
...maybe a little?
I'm not sure most people with hella brains would know that he was tracking - at least until I said so, and I have hella brains, and I wasn't sure that he was tracking. Since I knew how my choice of targets would look from the perspective of someone else who's directly victimized by it, though, (because Req was suspicious), I could see how bus driving could be a reasonable conclusion for someone, if they were basing their investigations on their damage taking and my choice of targets alone.
...oh? And yet, you were gonna lynch me yesterday - when that seemed like the most likely scenario. And the main reason it doesn't still look like the most likely scenario, is because Tirin got on my shit for some good reason; well before you did, I might add.
A) If anything, balancing would probably indicate that scum should've been doing more damage - if only you hadn't been refraining from dealing damage for most of this time, except for the time you revealed yourself as doing more outright damage than Soldier. B) I have a real hard time believing that you've got slightly more than half the health bar I do, although I'll grant that it's far from impossible.
The death of me or Tirin would reveal nothing. If I die and flip Town, Tirin points out how he could've just had me lynched and calls you scum; it's legitimately a good argument. If Tirin dies and flips Town, I point out how I could've just had Tirin lynched and call you scum; it's legitimately a good argument. It's your death that actually matters.
My bad, makes more sense why I didn't reply to that. At the time I was gunning on you being Sombra. Similar to how you and Tirin spotted Req leaving the Dunsparce lynch, I sorta theory crafted a series of events where Tirin bouncing off of you would lead to a profitable SK run. You're right Dunsparce and Anatron would be tough to kill at night, but who know's how powerful his ult is, and if it works like Hanzons ult, it would pierce the shield, and if it's Doomfists, that shit comes from the sky, I guess it might be piercing damage as well?
If I remember to i'll reply in the mafia set up thread after the game, but it's a meta point.
I was pretty clueless as to where to lynch the other day, I think a lot of people where besides you/Dunsparce. Tirin had an idea at a time where I couldn't conceive one, and it sounded good to me. I've had some time to do some more independent thinking. Today and yesterday really do feel like they've been their own game.
While soldier traditionally probably should do more deeps, I've got more flavour to be a slippery snake + deeps, which is probably why I ended up with the healthbar I did.
I think it'd reveal something when the game ends in a Town victory.
My thoughts here are pretty simple.
Easy’s play on Day I is full of unnecessary lying and distractions. Shitty Town play, good scum play. He’s Easy, so he basically has forum invincibility.
Andy being vague has led to way more nitpicking than was available for the people who paraphrased or got advice from Jeroth about particularly iconic abilities.
Tirin isn’t Zenyatta.
There’s a Zenyatta.
I’d be perfectly happy lynching Andy today, and I’m somewhat curious as to why Dunsparce would boost my damage rather than just rezzing somebody. If I’m not mistaken, the Sombra ult is still available, meaning it would be easier to end the game today than tonight. If there’s one scum and an independent (nobody’s died at Night so the term SK is a little bit out of place) then Andy’s claim is that Tirin and Easy were the baddies the whole time, which makes almost no sense. If Hanzo is Town, which... haven’t seen any real argument for why he wouldn’t be, then tracking instead of doing damage makes sense. If he’s independent, providing more information than is necessary is silly.
On the other hand, saying you did nothing every Night but dodge and saying that you have 18 health is kind of asking someone to shoot you in the face just to see what happens.
Easy’s play on Day I is full of unnecessary lying and distractions. Shitty Town play, good scum play. He’s Easy, so he basically has forum invincibility.
Andy being vague has led to way more nitpicking than was available for the people who paraphrased or got advice from Jeroth about particularly iconic abilities.
Tirin isn’t Zenyatta.
There’s a Zenyatta.
I’d be perfectly happy lynching Andy today, and I’m somewhat curious as to why Dunsparce would boost my damage rather than just rezzing somebody. If I’m not mistaken, the Sombra ult is still available, meaning it would be easier to end the game today than tonight. If there’s one scum and an independent (nobody’s died at Night so the term SK is a little bit out of place) then Andy’s claim is that Tirin and Easy were the baddies the whole time, which makes almost no sense. If Hanzo is Town, which... haven’t seen any real argument for why he wouldn’t be, then tracking instead of doing damage makes sense. If he’s independent, providing more information than is necessary is silly.
On the other hand, saying you did nothing every Night but dodge and saying that you have 18 health is kind of asking someone to shoot you in the face just to see what happens.